Thoughts on ketches and yawls

[LoudMusic]

I would like to cross oceans on a cutter rigged ketch. I don't think that will ever happen for me.

[picklesandjesse]

Had an F and C 44 ketch for 10 years. Loved it. Set the mizzen twice, once for 30 mins and the other time 2 hours. The mizzen boom was great for a sun awning and the mast in the cockpit great to hang onto in big seas. Also the mizzen good for a wind generator. Never set the mizzen staysail. The mizzen would do as a back up mast should the main rig fail, but you'd have to have it worked out before setting out

[SteveSadler]

I loved my Gulfstar 50 ketch. Mainly because I never had to reef. Just drop the main.
Now I have a 49' sloop with roller furling main and a wide open cockpit with no rigging in my way, furling is super easy, so no, I don't miss it at all.

[bailsout]

I love my Herreshoff 28 modified ketch(staysail). I do a lot of singlehanded sailing and working with smaller sails allows me to not use a winch handle. I find the mizzen mast a comfort and supportive in the cockpit. The mizzen is the first sail I put up and let’s me sail up the fairway of my dock before I engage the motor thus avoiding some eel grass snarls around the prop until I’m in deeper water. It’s also the last sail down when I sail back into my slip. And, of course, all the combinations possible for varying wind conditions. I like some of the arguments for a yawl, but I think I’m getting too old for a bigger main to handle.

[Kd9truck]

One 4th of july in the 80s I was at the helm of a vessel my father had chartered. I liked the vessel but something felt strange, there was a smoothness to the pointing and it glided along effortlessly. I adjusted to the smaller mast and boom that was directly above the wheeled helm awkward but functional I guess, I was a teenager. At about the 2pm hr with everybody stretched out on deck and in a salt air induced altered leaves of consciousness, I heard something funny like a cracking, soon after I noticed the boom wanting to rest on my shoulder, I started looking for adjustments. Then I noticed the pedestal that held the helm starting to lean forward as the weight of the boom increased on my shoulder. Confused and surprised and afraid I had done something wrong but helpless to rectify the situation I alerted the crew. The sail above the helm was dropped, the halyard of this sail was ran foward and secured, and the pedestal was tied and pulled astern to limit the Lean of the pedestal foward. The day was done we were headed back all somewhat confused.
The Triassic stay was never reinstalled in the spring commissioning we were the first to raise the sail as the owner thought it awkward to sail with. The owner immediately blamed my father and my father politely pointed out that the rigging seemed incomplete, it was not until the insurance adjusted came and validated what my father had suspected.
If your drawn to the multi mast design I would say the yawl is better because it is not as intrusive.

Disclaimer: I own a coastal cruising Sloop, a “production vessel” as most are, with a big broad transom and a twin helmed cockpit, plenty of foot and head space and unobstructed views.

[Hudson Force]

I owned sloops earlier, but kept a ketch for my last 32 years of cruising. This was a choice I made in order to have accommodations aboard for my family of four and still be able to easily pass under the many 55' fixed bridges on the US East Coast.

If I had been making a choice without concern for access to some desired cruising areas; I would more likely have selected a cutter rig, but I loved my ketch.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

What others think? Rod Stevens was alleged to have said something like "I can improve both the performance and the appearance of a yawl... with an axe!"

I've no dog in this fight... some boats seem attractive to me, some don't, but it isn't solely the rig that drives the impression.

Jim

We have owned a Frers designed Dawn 48 ketch for 21 yrs. We love the split rig, the mizzen adds about a 1/2 knot when reaching or running, but best of all we use the mizzen boom to crane our RIB aboard to store aboard so no davits. With electric primary winches it's a push button operation. I think ketches look cool too. Avoid a triatic stay between the masts as a dismasting can take down both spars instead of just one. All just my opinion of course.

[goboatingnow]

Ketches and yawls. Twice the rigging. masts , string , expense, hassle and half the performance.

But hey they are “ prettier “.

[sck5]

My cousin has a Bermuda 40 yawl and seems to regard the mizzen mast as a great way to fly a mizzen staysail and also a place to decorate with various antennae, etc. The mizzen sail itself is rarely used except in particular conditions to balance the rig. It is also worth noting that these folks sail their boat pretty fast - they won the Bermuda race a few years ago and so clearly have figured out the optimal sail configuration for just about any conditions. Sure looks pretty though.

[Pegu Club]

Ketches and Yawls are certainly nicer to gaze upon, many older designs are, especially now in the current design climate, where like modern cars, modern sailboats tend to look quite similar to each other, it’s nice to see less sameness, jmo. I would own either a Yawl or Ketch if the right opportunity and timing came about.

Fair winds,

[zeehag]

ketch sailing in big winds is a lot different than sailing a sloop in same winds.. ketch split rig makes for ease in handling and more effective speed in a bash situation. itis easier to achieve a more efficient point of sail in a bash with ketch and succeed in making more than 1-2 kts speed over ground. watched the difference in gom when we were trying to make way in a sloop as a ketch slid by fast and sweet. nope i will not attempt a 60 kt wind in a sloop as i did in my ketch quite nicely. and i was a die hard sloop sailorette.
now i LOVE my ketch and see no issue with the maintenance of a successful rig.

[dfelsent]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

One 4th of july in the 80s I was at the helm of a vessel my father had chartered. I liked the vessel but something felt strange, there was a smoothness to the pointing and it glided along effortlessly. I adjusted to the smaller mast and boom that was directly above the wheeled helm awkward but functional I guess, I was a teenager. At about the 2pm hr with everybody stretched out on deck and in a salt air induced altered leaves of consciousness, I heard something funny like a cracking, soon after I noticed the boom wanting to rest on my shoulder, I started looking for adjustments. Then I noticed the pedestal that held the helm starting to lean forward as the weight of the boom increased on my shoulder. Confused and surprised and afraid I had done something wrong but helpless to rectify the situation I alerted the crew. The sail above the helm was dropped, the halyard of this sail was ran foward and secured, and the pedestal was tied and pulled astern to limit the Lean of the pedestal foward. The day was done we were headed back all somewhat confused.

The Triassic stay was never reinstalled in the spring commissioning we were the first to raise the sail as the owner thought it awkward to sail with. The owner immediately blamed my father and my father politely pointed out that the rigging seemed incomplete, it was not until the insurance adjusted came and validated what my father had suspected.

If your drawn to the multi mast design I would say the yawl is better because it is not as intrusive.



Disclaimer: I own a coastal cruising Sloop, a “production vessel” as most are, with a big broad transom and a twin helmed cockpit, plenty of foot and head space and unobstructed views.

As a note, not all ketches have triatic stays. Moonbeam does not. To support this the mizzen is fractionally rigged with runners , swept spreaders, and twin forestays that come to the deck forward of the main mast’s split backstay.
The runners are only eased when well off the wind, so not much work.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by dfelsent

As a note, not all ketches have triatic stays. Moonbeam does not. To support this the mizzen is fractionally rigged with runners , swept spreaders, and twin forestays that come to the deck forward of the main mast’s split backstay.
The runners are only eased when well off the wind, so not much work.

Mine is the same, no triatic stay, Olympic Adventure 47.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ketches and yawls. Twice the rigging. masts , string , expense, hassle and half the performance.

But hey they are “ prettier “.

Funny, but little actual knowledge, in this short post.

These are cruising vessels not racers, or Bay bound.

Meant for long steady tracks and short handed sailing.
And More elegant than a sloop!

No comparison.
Okay I'd admit some bias here.

Boatyarddog

[ramron67]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

Ketches and Yawls are certainly nicer to gaze upon, many older designs are, especially now in the current design climate, where like modern cars, modern sailboats tend to look quite similar to each other, it’s nice to see less sameness, jmo. I would own either a Yawl or Ketch if the right opportunity and timing came about.

Fair winds,

I agree about the classic boat and classic car analogy.
Some newer boats look like you could buy them from Ikea.