Thoughts on this Van de Stadt 34?

[Marutji]

Originally Posted by Lthw

Hello everyone,

Just a note to thank you all for your contributions. We’re quite overwhelmed by the responses; they have given us a lot to think about.

TrentePieds, thanks for the Marine Survey 101 link - great resource.

A few comments on the emergent themes:

Steel vs GRP

We would do well to clarify that we have targeted the Van de Stadt 34 based on the favorable review in “Get Real, Get Gone” coupled with, what is for us at least, as inexperienced sailors, a convincing argument for steel. Basically, we’re not looking to reinvent the wheel. Whilst we might be able to appreciate the relative handling characteristics, layout etc. by trying out a range of boats, we cannot really pretend to know what we need. We'd rather do targeted research based on a model recommendation. That being said, what models could people recommend for a good starter bluewater boat in GRP between 30 and 40 foot and budget circa 30kEUR (plus 15kEUR contingency)? Preference for an ample fin keel and skeg-hung rudder. I suspect this already needs another thread. We looked at the Bayfield 32 and “Twenty small sailboats to take you anywhere” (John Vigor) but these appear overwhelmingly to be models more common in the US. For reference, we’re in Paris/Lille (for now).

Rust

As many of you pointed out, we note that it is critical to establish whether there is rust on the inside of the hull. This was covered in “Get Real, Get Gone” with a specific mention of the importance/challanges of gaining access to the hull internally (thanks, Rick).

Engine

Based on our relatively limited research, we had not come across this manufacturer so definitely take note that this is unfavorable regarding spares/maintenance.

Best wishes,
Oliver and Laurine

No problem - always happy to help aspiring sea gypsies. Drop me a line if you would like me to make some suggestions of great boat models available in Europe.

Cheers,

Rick

[Marutji]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The above sounds good when you say it fast, but does not seem supported by reality... at least in this part of the world.

First, there are very few steel boats around relative to FG, and even fewer near new ones that are for sale... like zero.

Second, the only likely reason that a near new boat of any construction would be for sale is that it has some issues... not a great purchase incentive to me.

Third, elderly FG boats have become REALLY cheap in most venues, and finding a "near new" steelie at such a price just seems unlikely.

In short, your hypothesis seems far fetched to this sailor!

Jim

Hi Jim.

As I explain in the book that this couple are referring to, fear of steel can often lead to suppressed prices. I have taken advantage of this fear both for myself and several friends and none of the boats had issues beyond what one would normally expect when buying a used boat. In fact, they all had far less because everything else was newer (which is kind of the point). I also state clearly in the same chapter that this does not apply in Northern Europe, where steel boats fetch higher prices than elsewhere.

I hope that clears things up.

Rick
Calypso II
Port of Bundaberg

[Michael Cobbe]

Have an ultrasound test that will test the thickness of the steel, if it is thinner then there it rust. The area(s)of rust need to be sand blasted, to stop rust coming back the first coat must be Zinc rich epoxy.

[raahell]

Bonjour Oliver et Laurine,

Buying a sailboat is always a bit of a trial and can be stressful. My wife and I recently (last summer - in the middle of COVID!) did as you are trying to do now - to purchase a used metal boat. We had our "discussions" but it was at least something we both wanted. Not all couples can say that. We have the advantage over you of having previously owned a smaller GRP sailboat. On this boat we learned our chops, both in terms of seamanship and boat maintenance/repairs.



This point brings me to the question: Why are you considering a steel sailboat in the mid 30' range designed for ocean cruising, for your 1st boat? you may have excellent reasons, but an alternative is to purchase a somewhat smaller, somewhat newer sailboat designed for coastal cruising and determine if sailing and boat ownership is something you really do enjoy?


OK, now that I've got that out of the way, since you and we are in approximately the "same boat", I hope I can tell you some things that will help you in your search and acquisition.

In case you're wondering, we ended up with a 36' steel "swing keel" sailboat built for expedition (high latitude sailing). It's a Caroff 36, designed by French naval architect, Gilbert Caroff. Since you are in France, you might consider looking at some of the many metal swing keel sailboats on the market in that country. The French have a particular love for swing-keels as they give the variable draft that allows them to get into shallow anchorages. Also, with the keel up inside its keel box, the boat has a flat bottom and can therefore dry out in high tidal areas. If such sailing appeals to you you might as well take advantage of your current location and look at a few. The most common swing keel sailboat is the OVNI range but these are made in Aluminum alloy, which will be more expensive than equivalent sized boats in steel. Bilge (twin) keels are also an option to the usual fin keel or traditional keel and can be found in France and across "la manche" (English Channel). My points here are: 1) we were searching all along for a variable draft ocean-worthy sailboat and didn't give up on that. 2) if we hadn't gained 10 years of experience with a previous boat, we never would've known about things like variable draft and wouldn't have the confidence we now have to pursue sailing to more distant horizons.

You've heard generalizations that smaller steel boats don't perform very well. A well designed steel boat can perform quite adequately for cruising. Our Caroff 36, with keel down to its 6.5" max draft, can sail at apparent wind angles of as little as 35 degrees and can sustain 4 kts in a 8-10 kt breeze. Sure, it doesn't accelerate as fast as a light GRP racer or racer-cruiser but boy is it stable and bulletproof! We've also sailed it in 35 kt winds and it felt much more comfortable than our 30' GRP cruiser.

It's all about what you intend to do with your sailing time. Try to define your priorities and then search for a boat that has the characteristics that match your intended sailing. In this regard, it is useful to get beyond generalities. Read up on key determinants of sailboat stability and performance (such as sail area to displacement ratio, ballast to displacement ratio, comfort ratio, etc), then pick a range within each of these and search for boats that are within your range. www.sailboatdata.com is a great place to start. Besides having reviews and data on thousands of sailboat types there's also introductory explanations of the various characteristics.

I don't know how long you've been looking, but on both boats that we've owned, it took us 6 months to search, find and purchase. During that time we looked at thousands on the internet and personally inspected at least a dozen. So don't expect this to be a quick process.

I suggest for the first few boats that you visit, bring an experienced sailor/ steel boat owner with you and get him/her to show you what they look for and how. Then you can inspect the following ones on your own, with more confidence.

Like your VdS 34 (I think it's now sold, was that you?), our boat was on the hard for some time - 3 years. Our boat had also crossed the Atlantic 4 times in its 30 years of use, so it was no dock queen. After we purchased her we sailed and motored for a couple thousand km to get to know her. Then we put it up on the hard to restore and adapt her to our intended use. You should expect to take on a sizable refit of any used boat you purchase, especially if your purchase price for a metal mid 30's boat is anything under USD 50,000. There's a lot of well priced "project boats" out there - but it's still a project boat.

Just to give you an idea of the work involved - I've taken about 30% of the interior apart to access as much of the interior hull plating/ribs/stringers as possible to determine what corrosion/other issues - exists on the inside. This is super important, as others have mentioned. So I've found bits here and there but nothing bad. I'll grind away the paint and wire-wheel to get rid of as much rust as possible, passify (turn the active iron-oxide to inert iron-phosphate) any remaining rust with Ospho and repaint. With the interior partly stripped I'm also re-doing some wiring and plumbing and changing most of the seacocks. Outside, I'm stripping and recoating the hull below the waterline (big, dirty job best left to a professional sandblaster, if you can afford it). I've also removed the rudder and keel to check/replace bearings, etc, then sanding down and recoating those as well. Topsides, I've been taking up all deck fittings (which were thankfully in very good shape), repainting under them and rebedding. We'll sand down the rest of the deck/cabin top and re-coat the top-sides next summer, also adding non-skid paint. Almost all the electronics needs to be changed ($$$). The motor is a very common Perkins and is in great shape, fortunately, due to a recent, thorough re-build. I've also removed the mast, boom, standing and running rigging, inspected it all thoroughly and have ordered a small number of replacement parts based on my findings. The sails (main, 2 genoas, and storm jib) are all in very good to excellent shape, thankfully, and will give us years of use.

Despite the fact that I've found no corrosion or any other major deficiencies of any real concern (at least not yet, fingers crossed). I'll nevertheless spend the good part of a year and $25,000+ protecting our investment and getting it ready for long-term cruising. BTW that doesn't include the "outfitting" part - personal gear, safety gear, navigation gear, rescue/distress MOB gear, dinghy, etc but we have a lot of that already. I presume you don't?

The prices I quote above are based on my wife and I doing most of the work ourselves. This is not a cheap hobby! Nevertheless are are now on our 2nd sailboat and love doing what we can do with her.

Good luck with your search! PM me if you feel like it.

[SimonFirth]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Lthw the Ruggerini diesel would be a concern for me maybe. How hard are parts to get for that motor? For me if I was cruising overseas I would like a more common motor.
I notice the head lining looks like it is falling down in one of the photos? How old is the standing rigging? How old are the sails? All these things and the fact nothing has been used for five years means you are in for some surpri$e$.
I don't mind steel yachts, but it is the bits you cannot see that should be checked for rust.
Maybe $5000 is worth a gamble, at least that way you are not losing to much money if you have to give her away.
Cheers

I wouldn’t worry about parts. Ruggerini is an Italian industrial motor and comes in a number of guises, Arona being one of them. They’re in widespread use. We can even source spare parts in Tasmania with relative ease.

[nuku34]

The OP’s state that have very little sailing experience, like a week long beginner’s course. I wonder what they are thinking when contemplating buying a 34ft boat?
I don’t want to “rain on their parade”, but I respectfully suggest they get a 15-18ft dinghy with main jib and spinaker or a 20-24ft “trailer sailor“ and actually learn to sail before spending $ on a big boat which, as another poster has mentioned, you can expect to spend around 10% of the purchase price on yearly costs. if you want to learn to fly, you start with a Piper Cub, not a 737.
How do they know they are going to like sailing without some real experience? i have seen so many broken dreams where complete novices spend $ on boats that are not appropriate for learning to sail.
Slag me if you want, but I’ve been in the racing/cruising game for a lot of years and I speak from experience.

[Lthw]

Hello double u, thanks for your messages. I'm really keen to take at look at the Loisirs Nautiques hors série. Do you know the specific issue numbers of the issues you recommended? It seems like the first might be issue 1? They can get quite pricey so I'd rather at least start with your recommendations to see if I like the format. Thanks in advance.

[double u]

Originally Posted by Lthw

Hello double u, thanks for your messages. I'm really keen to take at look at the Loisirs Nautiques hors série. Do you know the specific issue numbers of the issues you recommended? It seems like the first might be issue 1? They can get quite pricey so I'd rather at least start with your recommendations to see if I like the format. Thanks in advance.

19 is „la plaisance francaise a La decouverte de des architectes“ (sorry, pas des accents)

[double u]

No 16 is construction Ali-Acker-inox

[Coyote24]

I realize that this thread is a bit old but be aware that VdS has been the most un-supportive company/design yard I have encountered in over 40 years in the boating industry, either as a customer or as part of the industry.
I own one of design 391, great great boat but I think the designer would be ashamed of what the current Co. does to the owners of his designs.
any questions ask was answered with a 'cost to know' when the cost had already been paid for by buying the plans!

[RaymondR]

The Van Der Stadt frameless steel boats tend to be a lor less prone to internal corrosion than traditional designs with lots of frames and stringers.

[Glenn.Brooks]

Two years nearly, have gone by. I wonder what has happened to the OP’s quest to buy a boat and go sailing? Perhaps what their thoughts are now… that would be the interesting part of the story.

[Coyote24]

Just to make the record straight.
After some back and forth, Van de Stadt agreed that the request I had made was justified and I was sent the files I requested at no cost.

I have since put the original reply from VdS as a misunderstanding between my English and VdS Customer Service Dutch.

Very happy with the VdS34, btw.