To Ketch or Not to Ketch

[CarlF]

My sense is that the PO is thinking about a smaller boat. But if he wants a boat bigger than 45ft and intend to sail on the east coast of the US, a ketch will get a lot more sail area under 65ft bridges.

I just spent two weeks on the ICW and couldn't believe the number of 48-53ft ketches. The same length sloops with their 75ft masts were waiting for a moment to round Hatteras - not a fun place to be in November.

The sloop's advantage is primarily upwind. Critical for racers but not so much for cruisers. And even then it's a matter of design. If you've ever been passed by one of Steve Dashew's freight trains, you don't believe a ketch is outdated for cruising.

Another great use of the mizzen mast is a place to fly a mizzen staysail. Positively my favorite downwind sail. A lot of power but easy to set and douse. No dangerous acrobatics on the fore deck is required. If you want real romance you can even set a mule with the clew at the mizzen top.

Carl

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Minnie

A mizzen on a yawl is primarily a balancing sail whilst on a ketch it is a driving sail. That's a generalisation, of course, but explains why the yawl has the mizzen behind the rudder post and the ketch has it ahead of it.

My mizzen is forward of the rudder post, but not that large. It really does not add many knots and this is exactly why you can have it up at anchor to hold the boat into the wind. It seems to me to be a lot more of a balancing sail and does well at this purpose.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by CarlF

1. My sense is that the PO is thinking about a smaller boat. But if he wants a boat bigger than 45ft and intend to sail on the east coast of the US, a ketch will get a lot more sail area under 65ft bridges...,,,,

2. Another great use of the mizzen mast is a place to fly a mizzen staysail. Positively my favorite downwind sail. A lot of power but easy to set and douse. No dangerous acrobatics on the fore deck is required. If you want real romance you can even set a mule with the clew at the mizzen top.

Carl

1. For the same reason gaff rig ketches might still be a viable design especially on a traditionally styled boat?

2. Reading through a couple of old sailing mags over the last few days I had to admire the photos of a few big fast cruising boats flying mizzen staysails. The looked absolutely elegant and it would be a nice way to get that extra couple of knots on a long reach?

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by gpshephe

Curious if you live aboard, and if so , at anchor? or in a marina?

i live on board and i am refitting what is in dire need prior to leaving to cruise in her... i am on mooring here. is always a challenge to live on that which you are restoring. i used to live in marinas , long ago, but i prefer this mode. i am always into the wind, and hot days are not hot.
i never could adapt to having the wind come athwartships--makes me not sleep.

[NotQuiteLost]

Having sailed fairly extensively on both a sloop and a ketch, the ketch wins for shorthanding without a fight. The number of advantages (ability to outmaneuver the weather before I go to sleep by dropping sail area early without sacrificing speed, smaller sails which are more easily handled, sail redundancy in case of rigging failure, far more balancing options which increases safety and lastly the heavy weather performance/safety options are simply incomparable) simply crush the disadvantages (a slight loss of top end speed, a minor-but-significant-enough-to-discuss rigging cost increase and perhaps less windward ability...perhaps).

The tall sloops are the race winners, that's for sure. But people sometimes lose perspective on what's important in a cruising sailboat. We all know that a Lamborghini will outrun a Toyota Prius every time they engage. There are simply no circumstances where the Prius can win. But! You don't want to commute in a Lamborghini for a few reasons, not the least of which is fuel economy. There are also good reasons to go with a Volvo instead, as they're ridiculously safe in collision testing, even though their fuel economy isn't as good as the Prius.

Top end performance isn't the be-all, end-all of cruising sailboat criteria. It probably doesn't even enter the top ten, let alone the top five.

[Hudson Force]

My wife and I have been live-aboard cruisers of sloops for fourteen years followed by twenty-five years of living aboard and cruising our ketch. They are different and similar in all those ways described above. If we were to take on a new rig, I think I might like to try a cutter, but they have all been good for us. My three favorite traits of the ketch are. 1) the variety of sail plans 2) sailing in a restricted space like the ICW with a big genoa and a mizzen stay sail & no turning up to put things away.(I guess this is still #1) and 3) clearing the 55 foot fixed bridges.

[sww914]

I've always liked the part where you can dump the main in a hurry if you get hit by a squall and you're still sailing a balanced boat.

[CarlF]

SurferShane,

Go all the way. Gaff rigged schooner. On a reach they'll blow by anything. On a run, wing and wing - forget the wimpy poled out genie. Just don't jibe.

And a proper place to fly your flag.

Carl

[sailordiver]

I own a Whitby 42, and I can singlehand her. Once you get comfortable with knowing the layout of your boat, it isn't bad.

[Capt Phil]

Originally Posted by gpshephe

Curious if you live aboard, and if so , at anchor? or in a marina?

Tried both... enjoyed being on the hook in Mexico the most. Used marinas for fitting out in US. When I moved to power (choke), found the marina more convenient but spent a lot of time anchored out in the PNW. Sure miss it!

[Capt Phil]

Originally Posted by zeehag

dang , cpt phil--i got my ketch after i turned 60!!!! or just about the same time.....a sloop is a lot more difficult to cruise-- btdt last yr in gulf of mexico--was a gas-- i am glad i sailed that -- but i realllly missed my ketch when the electrical storms gave us 70 kt winds..LOL...is so much easier to handle smaller sails on a bigger boat than bigger sails on a smaller boat.
i have a choice of what i can sail--i own both a ketch and a sloop, each of which is a decent cruiser-- the ketch is my choice for cruising for me as it is a lot more practical for long distance sailing.

I agree with your choice, Zee'... the sail plan on the ketch really sold me. Previous boat was a Wlm Aiken designed Ingrid cutter rig which I owned for about 15 years and thought I'd found Nirvana when I sailed her, much of it singlehanded. But adding 10 feet right in the middle sure increases the boats' livability! I'm very familiar where you are right now... spent a bit of time in Sunroad across the harbor from you a few years ago.

[gpshephe]

Somebody please poke holes. I can give you info if you need it.

Type of Boat : Sailboat Manufacturer : Mariner Model : 40 Year of Manufacture : 1965 Location : Cebu (I'll sail it to you), Philippines Overall Length : 40 ft (12.2 m) Beam : 11 ft (3.4 m) Draft : 6 ft (1.8 m) Hull Type : Wood Engine Information
Number of Engines : 1 Make (Manufacturer) : Perkins Horsepower : 48 Estimated Usage : 1200 hours Fuel Capacity : 265 L Water Holding : 333 L Combustion : Diesel

[sww914]

It's a 45 year old wood boat made in Taiwan.

[NotQuiteLost]

Originally Posted by sww914

It's a 45 year old wood boat made in Taiwan.

Not to be contentious, but it occurred to me that your point could be taken in either a negative or a positive light.

In general, wood boats require a high degree of continual maintenance to ensure their continued health, unlike GRP or even steel, where you can put things off for many years at a time until you 'get around to it.'

A 45 year old wood boat could either be a ticking time bomb, or an immaculately maintained example of what a sailboat should look like after a couple generations of life. There really isn't as much middle ground as with other materials, at least in my limited experience.

[gpshephe]

Originally Posted by zeehag

oh yeah--in a marina, a ketch has more places to hang your laundry.
there are more places to place tarps in winter to keep the bad weather off the boat.
mizzen boom is a great place to hang a kerosene cockpit/anchor lantern

Can you anchor anywhere for any length of time in SD? Or does the Gestapo make you move after a while? I would believe a place like SD has rules.