To Tartan or not to Tartan

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Pete7

At last some real advice and as you point out hitting stuff underwater will be a disaster for a fin. Just watch this from 5 minutes onwards to see the result.

Pete

Nice video! haha.. I don't recommend repeatedly smashing your boat into rocks, but even a fin keel can handle it.. sometimes anyway. With the T40 construction, I would very highly doubt that you'd sink the boat grounding on rocks at 7knts. Though you may do some structural damage. But, I don't recommend you going around hitting hard stuff. Our T41 drew almost 7.5 full cruising trim... we would "feel" our way slowly into Bahamian anchorages and had a few bumps into sand at a few knots. Nothing to be concerned about. NO BOAT is 'designed' to smash into rocks/reef at max hull speed. When this happens, the damage of concern is to the hull, not keel. Encapsulated or not, the hull can experience structural damage/failure. That T40 is a great boat!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by caffel

As you my hove found out by now a lot of strong designs have keel bolts in addition to the external fiberglass.
And juts where would you attach the lightning ground straps if you didn't have those bolts ?

Ummm.... if the ballast is encapsulated keel bolts are a very poor choice for a lightning discharge path. One risks blowing holes right through the glass as the lightning bolt's energy escapes to the sea.

Really bad idea...

Jim

[Mike Banks]

I never heard of your friend's boat--but a Swan lost a bolt on keel during an ocean race--the crew were taken off and the vessel is a home for little fishes now-

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

a Swan lost a bolt on keel during an ocean race

When/where? Never heard of this.

[Mike Banks]

Still looking for the Swan--it was widely reported at the time, unless the article got the maker's name wrong. Here are some others though to go on with--enough to make one want to go multi--
https://www.yachtingworld.com/news/k...ng-facts-60006

And--

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...s-falling-off/

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by zstine

I believe the core is limited to above the waterline, which is a good compromise for performance and safety

It’s not on the T40- the whole hull is cored to within 2 feet of centerline.
BUT- they used vinylester starting in 86-87 in outer layers. And every single through hull fitting was installed in a nicely tapered core-less area. And, the outer skin reportedly is almost as thick as the hull would be without core- the core adds extra stiffness and insulation mostly, though since every single settee, shelf, locker, etc seems to be tabbed into the hull probably isn’t needed. Hence an extremely stiff boat as well but impossible for moisture intrusion through that much well laid glass

Haven’t heard of any T37 or T40 with core issues but I’m sure they are out there, particularly if a fitting was added through the core…

[bensolomon]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Still looking for the Swan--it was widely reported at the time, unless the article got the maker's name wrong. Here are some others though to go on with--enough to make one want to go multi--
https://www.yachtingworld.com/news/k...ng-facts-60006

And--

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...s-falling-off/

Cheeki Raffi. I think it was a beneteau.

[nortonscove]

[QUOTE=Stu Jackson;3488570]

Originally Posted by Cap Morgan

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I’m aware that practically all new boats have encapsulated keels or centerboard keels.

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Could you provide a source for this?


It is not true, though.

Really?

I'm thinking the vast majority of new cruising sailboats are definitely bolt on keels. The exceptions are not very plentiful for sure.

[JimsCAL]

[QUOTE=nortonscove;3489596]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Really?

I'm thinking the vast majority of new cruising sailboats are definitely bolt on keels. The exceptions are not very plentiful for sure.

??????? You do understand that encapsulated is NOT bolt on right?

[sailingharry]

[QUOTE=Sailmonkey;3488721]

Originally Posted by Cap Morgan

The only current manufacturer that comes to mind with an encapsulated keel is island packet. Not even in the same ballpark where performance comes in…..this is coming from a guy who owns a 45 year old encapsulated boat, our next will be bolt on.

One other current encapsulated boat would be the Outbound. Much more performance, but probably still not up to the T40. The Outbound is a hybrid. Much of the ballast is encapsulated, and then there are bolt-on "bulbs" attached to either side.


But, for sure, I'd wager that at least 90% of all boats built in this millennium are bolt on. 100% of performance boats (racers or performance cruisers), 100% of "mass market" boats (B, H, C, J), and a large percentage of the dribs and drabs.

[Ringmaster]

$1700 to survey a 40' sailboat? I'd look for another surveyor.

[grube]

Not sure where you got that idea about bolted-on keels. I have had three sailboats each larger than the previous boat. All had bolted-on keels. One needed repair to the bolts but was in no way ready to fall off. I think you will find with most fin keels that will be the case. Any ¾ or more length of keel will likely be encapsulated. Having said that, if I was sailing around the world and not just coastal, I would go with a longer keeled vessel. Likely without bolts.

[Cap Morgan]

Originally Posted by Symphony

I previously sailed a 1986 tartan 34-2 and a 1999 tartan 4100 all around the eastern seaboard.
I checked the torque on the keelboats in my initial survey. I never thought about them again. The Scheel Keel is a genius design.
As it stated in the above posts, Tartans are stick built which means you can get to repairing anything on the boat with less surgery than required on liner boats.

Not only do Tartans look beautiful and sail well, a clean Tartan is very easy to sell. Both of mine sold almost immediately.

Symphony,

Thanks for the reply. The T40 that I've been interested in has been listed for 9 months and had no offers until I placed an offer last week. I'm a little baffled as to why it never sold previously since Tartans have such a solid reputation. Unfortunately, the Seller and I have not been able to come to an agreement but it seems like an incredibly solid boat. My only critiques are, boat had green algae over entire wheel cover and areas of the cockpit (neglect?) and engine hours very high and when I looked at the boat there was diesel in the bilge right below the engine. I still felt that it would have been the boat for me with some additional investment but just a bit outside my budget<

[dougweibel]

Originally Posted by Cap Morgan

Unfortunately, the Seller and I have not been able to come to an agreement

LOL. Perhaps this is why the boat has not sold.

[krid2000]

Originally Posted by Cap Morgan

Unfortunately, the Seller and I have not been able to come to an agreement but it seems like an incredibly solid boat.

As the boat seems to be in Florida, ask the seller's broker for prices of T40s sold over the past year or so. They have access to soldboats.com. Mine should be on there, too. This might help with your negotiation.

Dirk