Tough and safe family boat

[EQJim]

Hi Joh.Gurt,

I think you hit the nail in the head with your comment(s). First off, I agree with not knowing what we want/need yet. Its one of the reasons I happened to stumble upon this helpful forum.

The safety at sea aspect in relation to a timetable is one of the reasons we put the actual destination and the corresponding trip/travel/timeslot as only secondary or tertiary. Almost everywhere I look and read the same advice pops up. Leave your itinerary at home since you will get caught up in situations you don't want to be in.

About the single handing: do you have advice and/or an opinion on things to look for with regard to this (or absolutely avoid)? Since I feel it has got a lot do to with the size of the boat, but are there other tell tales to look out for?

Thanks for your comments, it is good to get the priorities straight.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by EQJim

About the single handing: do you have advice and/or an opinion on things to look for with regard to this (or absolutely avoid)? Since I feel it has got a lot do to with the size of the boat, but are there other tell tales to look out for?

Actually I do.

First, it makes no big difference whether the halyards are in the cockpit or at the mast. There's no reason to qualify / disqualify a layout.

In general, in-mast furling is more comfortable - that's the reason why it's so popular. But furling at the mast isn't a big issue either with any kind of auto-pilot. Personally after in-mast, I prefer working at the mast to having everything led back to the cockpit, but that's a personal choice.

What you really should stay away from are old crewed racers and gaff-sailed ships. Anything halfway recent and common will do.

A good part of being able to single-hand a boat (excluding strange setups) is whether you have the confidence to do so. I usually test this by how comfortable am I to tack and gybe alone safely and how docile the boat behaves. I'm not into tacking in 3...2...1...TACK! when alone, I want the boat to forgive me my errors and I prefer to be able to reach the helm easily while switching sheets.

From a certain size on, it really helps to have electric winches. I think, my old 44-footer is for me the upper limit of what I feel I can handle alone with manual winches only.

Another thing that makes single-handing often easier is if you don't always have the maximum size of sails for maximum performance. This reduces the loads and increases the safety. Reef often and reef early.

The summary is: Try to do it yourself and take all the time you need for it. If you feel overwhelmed by a boat, you're either not ready for it or it isn't for you.

[EQJim]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

The summary is: Try to do it yourself and take all the time you need for it. If you feel overwhelmed by a boat, you're either not ready for it or it isn't for you.

Thanks. Makes a lot of sense. Since we only sail a 26 right now, I will try and see where and how to gain experience and (hopefully) confidence.

[mrcarson]

Plastic boats are ok, apart from Coring.Balsa. Stress cracking etc.
Stay away from fin keel and performance rudders if coastal.
60's to '85 designs are probably the better underwater profiles to give decent hullforms and capacity with reasonable coastal/Offshore sailing performance. (NOT speedy but stable) and parkable on the beach and against wharves/Walls.poles. They'll stand by themselves without multiple blocks,props.
After hitting several items. trees, container for one. I only use steel, shipyard welders built vessels. They are around. My 32ft Pugh was 2 x Shipyard welders built in the yard with Ship Steel and lead ballast for them to do a trip round the world.
Big arguement. Trip no go. Me a half finished beautifully welded yacht. I just finished with a shipwright/Cabinet maker over coupla yrs.
Hansel -----'85 welded. is an new cond today. on the outside and in bilges, steering area as a new welded boat.
Epoxy tarr interior to floors. Annual a/f to ext.
Sheets.Halyards. winches and all fitting maint.replaced at same time.
DO NOT let the negligence Steelies put you off. Plastic and the rest are just the same.
Just buy a properly Maint. designed/built vessel of any designer/builder.
AGE is irrelavant. Pugh Moonwind 32/38 and BODEN SouthSeas 40/42 (Cutter not Ketch.) are 2 examples of good seaboats in any weather of your size. Max interior. Max load weights and sea safety built in. I've been down in the 40/45's below Tassie in both by myself. Great waters NO people.
You can always update in size as kids and experience grow.
You'll be VERY busy with yacht and wife with kids, the first few yrs believe me.
Don't go too big OR too. (IE ALL ) your money expensive. Allow at least 40% of your cash in back pocket. You WILL spend it setting up.
More if boat needs refit.
Have fun

[Mike Crothers]

I appreciate your questions on what boats to consider but I think you have the cart before the horse. A small boat to learn on is a great idea and from it your young boys will be far more capable of helping sail your future boat than some may think. But how you will use the future boat is the first question to answer.



I suggest that you do some short term charters in various locations with or without the kids so you can answer the question of what do you like to do when you are cruising. A lot of people purchase expensive bullet proof boats only to find that they wait for a weather window that suit the boat they have or join a rally like ARC to increase the safety.



If you find like most people you really enjoy relaxing at anchorages, marinas or mooring fields with lots of toys onboard like paddle boards and scuba gear socializing with new friends you meet, then those considerations will drive the layout of your boat not how well protected the rudder is.



For example most conservative offshore boat have small cockpits for safety reasons that will be full with just the five or you.



Another key issue is do you like to work on boats and how much time are you willing to commit to learning electrical, engines, rigging, plumbing, fiberglass repair. Do you like to varnish? If you plan to pay others to work on your boat then don't get an older boat, and budget for repairs and maintenance because even a newer boat needs a lot of it.



Good luck with your adventure.

[Don Sloma]

Sorry. They may well be out there, but I am not aware of other charter/builder partnerships big enough and long enough established that they've been through several iterations of collaborating on designing, building and operating lots of boats for offshore charter as Moorings and Beneteau have.

[more]

Originally Posted by EQJim

Hi More,

but wouldn't you agree that looking at our budget a new boat would be asking too much from our budget?

We are EU citizens (Dutch) and would like to keep our destination open.

yes overkill for you
find some charter management and pay next year september boat like this
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...ia-46-7778548/
now is worst year for buying boat.
Lot people like you buy all boat on market,all this boat next 2-3 year return on market in 1/2 price

Europa don't make new marina and every year only in Croatia coming +-500 new boat .Price of marina explode.
don't keep boat in Croatia. The cheaper is in Italy Greece turkey. sea is more clean in Italy,people is better in Italy,greec,turkey

[goboatingnow]

Just as an example I'm sitting here in a boat with no portlights in the hull, all dark teak and only two hatches (in the saloon and in the forward cabin). Sounds pretty dark, but here in Spain isn't. In Norway in winter, I might see the situation differently.

though the all teak inside is a northern european things, southern boats often had less dark interiors

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Don Sloma

Sorry. They may well be out there, but I am not aware of other charter/builder partnerships big enough and long enough established that they've been through several iterations of collaborating on designing, building and operating lots of boats for offshore charter as Moorings and Beneteau have.

Moorings and Sunsail being sister companies owned by the same group tend to do a lot of semi custom models with Group Beneteau ( Beneteau, Jeanneau, Lagoon, prestige , Delphia, four winns, etc ) but many of these models then end up being fitted out for the private market

There are of course many many charter companies that take stock boats and use them.

Hence perusing the charter sell offs , is just a part of the normal buying processes

I do think that early 2020 was probably the time for that , now the expectation is the system will go "gang busters " and charter companies expect to be short of boats

but then again the OP is looking at 2026!!

I personally wouldn't touch a steel boat if you gave it to me for free !!

AGain with a practical €100K budget in 2026, the best combinationo f value and instant saiing appeal will be mainstream production marks, with that in mind, buy as new as you can

[more]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I personally wouldn't touch a steel boat if you gave it to me for free !!

like me
also best wood on boat is fiberglas

[AiniA]

I would agree that HR and an older Amel would be good. With four kids an ex-charter catamaran might make sense since each son gets their own cabin. I think for young people this matters a lot. Would make sense to start in the eastern Caribbean where there are huge numbers of boats coming out of charter each year.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by AiniA

I would agree that HR and an older Amel would be good. With four kids an ex-charter catamaran might make sense since each son gets their own cabin. I think for young people this matters a lot. Would make sense to start in the eastern Caribbean where there are huge numbers of boats coming out of charter each year.

I think you need to see what these boats are fetching and ending up with a 40 year old boat is just a recipe for continuously upgrading , out of date and tired systems and stuff no longer available. Amels are worse then anything else as there is so much custom stuff that costs a fortune from Amel.

with a 100K budget a decent 40- 45 foot Beneteau , etc will have modern systems , look well and sail well.

personally I would advise against a CAT , costs of berthing , lifting , etc are all rising and rising faster proportionally for wide beam boats as space becomes tight

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by EQJim

Thanks. Makes a lot of sense. Since we only sail a 26 right now, I will try and see where and how to gain experience and (hopefully) confidence.

Only a 26?

Funny how folks think they need a bigger boat to sail a longer distance.

Several Contessa 26's have circumnavigated while others simply crossed an ocean or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r3mno5oo7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuFK-uzwjRU

[goboatingnow]

Funny how folks think they need a bigger boat to sail a longer distance.

people have rowed across, doesnt mean its a great idea, comfortable , or pleasant

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

people have rowed across, doesnt mean its a great idea, comfortable , or pleasant

With a family of 4 to be pleasant would take about a 50'-60' boat, and the kids would still get bored with it after a very short time.

Most of the old geezers giving advice here have forgotten what it's like to be young and even if they could remember kids today are very different than we were with all the instant technology etc. they have had since birth.