Traditional Main vs In-mast Furling

[daletournier]

You will find most sailors that havent had them are scared of them and most that have them like them.

[CaptJamesCook]

Not to confuse the subject but might consider boom furling
Even if it jams you can still lower main?


I don't have either so just asking.

[SSgtPitt]

Boom furler. I have an Off Shore setup from Leisure Furl and love it. No jambs yet but you do have to pay attention to the boom position when furling otherwise the sail will run forward against the mast.
A LOT of sails in mast furler systems got yanked out with Harvey and Irma and the sails were lost and a few masts due to having the sails pulled out.
I can yank my sail down just fine from the deck and either pile it on the boom like a normal system, manually roll the sail around the boom or just dump it on the deck. I don't have to climb the mast for any of that.
K.I.S.S. though is probably the best in the long run. Less parts to break, less maintenance and for thousands of years it seems to have worked just fine across our planet.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Stated as succinctly as possible - the only value furling mains provide is convenience...when they work. It appears Lazy is becoming more fashionable.

Have had both and have 36,000 nm with in-mast furling. Couple of things come to mind. There is a major advantage with vane steering since you can infinitely reef the main to balance the sail plan and make life easier for the vane. We can even steer the boat with the vane on by slightly changing the sail area.

We have had only a few minor jams - all when letting sail out, never when going in. The longest of these took less than 10 minutes to fix with a little careful in and out and occasionally tugging on the sail. Jams only happen when you are not paying close enough attention.

I have heard nothing about differences between different brands of furlers. It seems nonsensical to me to say that all furlers are created equal and offer the same ease of use and reliability. We have a Hood with an electric motor for furling and it has been wonderful in spite of being 35 years old. When we bought the boat I thought very seriously about getting rid of the furler (not the mast, which would be prohibitive). Apparently a Harken mainsail track fits neatly over the slot. With the Battcars (think that is the right name), it would be a slick rig. Glad we kept the furler though.

Many, many people go from conventional to furling. Haven't heard of one going the other way (I am sure there are some).

[daletournier]

The biggest issue with inmast furling is FEAR, fear of jamming. I know i certainly suffered from it when i got the boat. The fear comes from "' I saw one jam once"....and this is true but not common.

With me it was lack of a reference point, Id never used one, didnt know how it should feel, i thought every turn off the whinch it was going to jam. Ive asked lots of questions, even half way across the indian ocean, i was still asking questions.

The furling it in determines how well it comes out, its not always easy to furl it perfectly when conditions are deteriorating. If it dosent go in as well as i like then im more careful pulling it out.

I always use the whinch manually when pulling out, you can feel it if there is a problem. Intially i did start to jam it a couple of times for a couple of reasons, when this happened i just rolled it back in. A proper jam occurs when you keep cranking on it, specially with a electric whinch.

As a previous poster mentioned, if they are going to jam they will jam coming out, not going in. I furl using a electric whinch.

Three things that made mine better
1/ halyard tension. The previous owner had long d shackles on the main, i couldnt get enough tension on the luff, tool me a while to work out, sometimes i over look the simple stuff.

2/ the other was bearings werent as free as they should of been, salt build up. A wash with vineger and hot water did the trick.

3/ vang tension, i now let the vang completely off allowing the toping lift to be at the right angle.

Like I said im still not a 100% fan but im coming around. Thousands of boats have them, very inexperienced charter skippers use them and all that Ive met that have them really like them. I know one guy that went to the antartic with one, hes one of the most knowledgeable and accomplished sailors i know and he likes his.

Its not complicated, its practice.

BTW normal mains arent perfect, theres been several dark stormy nights ive been on deck sorting reefing lines out that have managed to wrap around the boom end etc......This is cruising, continually inventing new problems you never thought could happen.

[CaptaindeJong]

Originally Posted by Phil Mavis

Hi everyone.

My wife and I are boat shopping.

Question 1: What are your thoughts on in-furling mains vs traditional mainsails with a stack pack?

I am aware of the risks of jamming (usually under the cover of darkness and blowing 30. We have raced for years so we are initially looking for a traditional main as we have no problem flaking or using a stack pack.

So far, with the boats we are looking at, it appears that there are more in-mast furling boats out there which appears to be limiting the boats that are available to us to consider to purchase. We are looking more at production boats currently mostly Beneteaus and Jeanneaus. We don't need to open that can of worms in this thread.

Question 2: Do you think we are limiting ourselves for resale value down the road if we continue to look for a traditional main with a stack pack?

I appreciate any feedback you might have to offer.

Phil

Answer #1
I lean a little more towards in mast furl over stack packs for a few reasons. In high winds, your sail cover acts as a sail whereas with in mast furl you can pull more sail in and reduce windage. Once you spend time on one particular boat I think you will find that it's easy to avoid fouling the sail and jamming in the mast. Also reefing is much easier with in mast furl, you don't have to point into the wind, AMAZING! And the sun has nothing to deteriorate if it's all inside the mast. No restitching your sail cover every other year with in mast furl.

Answer #2
I think there is still a large clientele for stack packs if you decide to go that route. I think the stack pack boats still have another 15 years before they're going to seem outdated and harder to sell.

[Dockhead]

It seems we have this same discussion about once every two months. The OP would be very well served by searching the archives; I doubt there is anything new to be said about.

I've done many thousands of miles with both systems, and all I can say is -- don't believe those who say in-mast furling is horrible carp which will jam and kill you, oh my.

A good in-mast furling system is extremely reliable and has a fairly long list of advantages, which I will not re-type here -- it's all in the archives.

I will just say that contrary to what some have posted above, I think in-mast furling is actually pretty attractive for boats used far offshore, in tough weather, and high latitudes.

I think in-mast furling is useless for mild latitudes and coastal sailing, where the advantages are not all that useful, and where the performance hit is painful.

I have in-mast furling on my present boat, and I have been quite pleased with it and have enjoyed the several advantages of this system very much. HOWEVER, my next boat will not have in-mast furling. I won't go into why here -- you can read it in the archives. But the short version of the story is -- both systems have their own advantages and disadvantages. Neither system sucks in an obvious way which will make the choice really easy. Unless you are a racer or hard-core performance sailor, in which case in-mast furling is not an option. But for everyone else -- you will need to drill into it and study the different pluses and minuses, and decide for yourself. Don't listen to anyone who tells you that the choice is simple or obvious.

[Phil Mavis]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

EDIT: Note that there are literally dozens of other threads on this exact topic. It comes up monthly, or at a minimum, quarterly. Here's but one of many others about it. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...st-163577.html

Thanks for mentioning that. I did a search for "in-mast furling vs traditional main" with zero results.

I'm new to this forum and perhaps didn't search properly. I will try to figure it out next time.

Thanks very much for your advice too.

[Phil Mavis]

Some great replies and good insightful advice. Thanks very much all!

Phil

[InTheDish]

I chartered a new Island Packet in March in the VI's.

Had a very sporty sail from St. Croix to St. John....steady 45, gusts above 50.

Getting close to Lamshire is was time to furl and the furling line jumped out of the continuous drum allowing the whole sail to come out and play.

Twisted a vertical batten.

Upon inspection the turning blocks on the deck were mounted too far aft allowing the line to work it's way free.

Just one more thing to check as you look!

[phydeaux]

Take a look at the in-boom roller furlers. Forespar makes a a 'Leisure Furl" package that has worked well for us. Mechanically simple with a couple of options for cruising or coastal sailing, and if you're really concerned with your back, they've made a powered version,

LeisureFurlâ„¢

[atlantical]

of course its weaker, its the choice of a tube with a slot cut in it, or a tube without a slot cut in it. the one with the slot is more prone to twisting, very difficult to twist a tube without a slot cut in it.

Basic engineering principles.

[TheThunderbird]

Not for serious offshore, good for lazy/easy coastal cruising.

If any, in-boom is far better imo

I see DH having a different experience, though...

[Ardbeg]

I had a 2006 production boat with vertical battens and roller furling. It was always when blowing 30 knots that it would jam. I also found I needed to over vang to get a bit of power from the furling main. I now have a 2011 Catalina 375 with full batten main with Dutchman system. The Dutchman, I could take or leave (prefer stack pack) but I would never go back to a non traditional main. I push every puff out of my boat and as such I need the sail. I sail often with people who race regularly and they are determined to get everything out of the sail. As for reefing, very easy with two reef points you can manage from the cockpit so I do not see that as an argument. Same argument with winged keels vs full keel. I am a full keel kind of guy. The boat came from the factory with a 135 genoa, I upped it to 150 genoa. Point is in this, are you sailing for the love of sailing to the best of your ability or are you just using a sailboat for a waterfront picnic on the weekend. What you want to do should dictate your choice in furling or non.

[RickG]

We have a 2009 Beneteau 40 with traditional main that we co-own in the USVI. We liveaboard a 2003 Beneteau 423 with in-mast furling on the Chesapeake Bay. When we set out to find a liveaboard boat we were specifically looking for a traditional main for all the reasons noted.

We settled on the 423 with the in-mast furler for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with the main. We are actually quite happy with the in-mast furler. We have had her out in some very frisky winds and she did well. We have no battens and a simple Neil Pryde mainsail. She furls easily and me and my lady can pull the sail off the boat faster than our traditional main on the B40 due to its smaller size.

I would still go with the traditional main given a choice. But, I'm happy enough with the furling main.

As for resale, if you have a traditional main B423 for sale in our market it would get a small premium for the right buyer, all things remaining equal.

Cheers, RickG