Traditional Main vs In-mast Furling

[daletournier]

Seriously the search function sucks . Every question has been asked before! Asking again brings new people and new information into the forum... This is a good thing.

[meirriba]

If funds are available, check in-boom furling. Best of both worlds. But expensive.

[Glen Ballou]

I have a Beneteau 461 with in-mast furling. I bought it used in 2006 and have put over 18,000 miles on it including round trips to the Bahamas and the Virgin Islands. I have never had a problem with the system. At 81 years old, I cannot imagine me going up on the deck in bad weather to reef or drop a main sail on our boat with a dodger, bimini and connector. In fact it would be almost impossible to put a sail cover on it unless you had 6 ft arms and are 10 ft tall.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Glen Ballou

I have a Beneteau 461 with in-mast furling. I bought it used in 2006 and have put over 18,000 miles on it including round trips to the Bahamas and the Virgin Islands. I have never had a problem with the system. At 81 years old, I cannot imagine me going up on the deck in bad weather to reef or drop a main sail on our boat with a dodger, bimini and connector. In fact it would be almost impossible to put a sail cover on it unless you had 6 ft arms and are 10 ft tall.

The conventional wisdom says that by the time you realize you should have reefed, it's too late. One theory is that trying to reef after you hit bad weather indicates poor anticipation. Having said that, we have all experienced that lapse in anticipation which is why main sails should be set up to facilitate quickly reefing. I guess an alternative solution is a furling main but that seems like a solution to a self-inflicted problem.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

The conventional wisdom says that by the time you realize you should have reefed, it's too late. One theory is that trying to reef after you hit bad weather indicates poor anticipation. Having said that, we have all experienced that lapse in anticipation which is why main sails should be set up to facilitate quickly reefing. I guess an alternative solution is a furling main but that seems like a solution to a self-inflicted problem.

Being easier to reef is a solution to a self inflicted problem? Really?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Glen Ballou

I have a Beneteau 461 with in-mast furling. I bought it used in 2006 and have put over 18,000 miles on it including round trips to the Bahamas and the Virgin Islands. I have never had a problem with the system. At 81 years old, I cannot imagine me going up on the deck in bad weather to reef or drop a main sail on our boat with a dodger, bimini and connector. In fact it would be almost impossible to put a sail cover on it unless you had 6 ft arms and are 10 ft tall.

Hi Glenn, and do you furl at all points of sail?, or better said, can you?

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Being easier to reef is a solution to a self inflicted problem? Really?

I think we are confusing ease of reeling and infinitely variable reefing. Obviously, any furler can do the latter to the extent that is necessary but it should be easy to reef a standard main assuming it is set up properly.

In many cases, such as the case I was addressing, the owner implied he finds it difficult to reef which is the "self-inflicted problem to which I refer.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

. . .In many cases, such as the case I was addressing, the owner implied he finds it difficult to reef which is the "self-inflicted problem to which I refer.

Sounds to me a bit like -- "Conventional wisdom says -- don't go out in storms. Therefore, storm sails are a solution to a self-inflicted problem." Or "Conventional wisdom says -- keep your boat water-tight. Therefore, bilge pumps are a solution to a self-inflicted problem."

Doesn't it, upon reflection? Ultimately all problems are "self-inflicted".

[fabricator-ken]

I have in mast fueling since 1988 would not swap it ever. We now have fully vertical batten with a higher tech cloth not Dacron. The performance is fantastic. Furling problem if you have any would be caused by operator. There needs to be slight tention on the out haul as you furl the sail. We furl on any heading at any moment. Take in on let out any amount of sail. Fabulous.

[fabricator-ken]

Our furling mast is far stronger than a standard mast.there is the inner section where the sail rotates and then the outer forward section that completes the mast.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fabricator-ken

Our furling mast is far stronger than a standard mast.there is the inner section where the sail rotates and then the outer forward section that completes the mast.

That's true - and contrary to something posted above.

But the downside to this is that you can't bend the mast for sail trim. The other and really serious downside to this is that in-mast furling masts are much heavier and bulkier, so much more windage and weight aloft.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by fabricator-ken

I have in mast fueling since 1988 would not swap it ever. We now have fully vertical batten with a higher tech cloth not Dacron. The performance is fantastic. Furling problem if you have any would be caused by operator. There needs to be slight tention on the out haul as you furl the sail. We furl on any heading at any moment. Take in on let out any amount of sail. Fabulous.

As i said im still learning the inmast furler thing to some degree.

When you furl off the wind do you have a lot of friction regarding sail being pulled agaist mast slot? This is what still concerns me, seems like a hell of alot load on the furling line, winch etc? I have no reference point, never used another ,so really not sure whats normal and whats not. It concerns me enough that im thinking of changing the furling lines to spectra.

Regarding batterns, wouldn't batterns increase the likely hood of jamming, although i do agree with you that inexperienced users are the biggest issue.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's true - and contrary to something posted above.

But the downside to this is that you can't bend the mast for sail trim. The other and really serious downside to this is that in-mast furling masts are much heavier and bulkier, so much more windage and weight aloft.

This is also true,both points.

Regarding performance, some lean more that way, Dh for one seems to enjoy getting the most out of his boat. Many others myself included dont pay as much attention to sail trim etc therefore the performance limitations of a inmast furling system arent that important and really from a cruising perspective the performance thing is minimal. Dont get me wrong i like some performance but im not sure the difference between the rigs is that much over many miles and varing conditions.

This year Sukha as cruised 7,200nm and we have averaged just under 6.2k, sailing 99% of the time.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by daletournier

As i said im still learning the inmast furler thing to some degree.

When you furl off the wind do you have a lot of friction regarding sail being pulled agaist mast slot? This is what still concerns me, seems like a hell of alot load on the furling line, winch etc? I have no reference point, never used another ,so really not sure whats normal and whats not. It concerns me enough that im thinking of changing the furling lines to spectra.

Regarding batterns, wouldn't batterns increase the likely hood of jamming, although i do agree with you that inexperienced users are the biggest issue.

I had heard horror stories about battens and in-mast furling. My sailmaker told me that there is no problem with them IF you have two things -- a modern in-mast furling system like Selden which has a wide slot in the mast, AND the batten pockets are properly designed to be snag-proof. The pockets have to open to the bottom, BTW. I took the risk and went for it, and have had zero problems. The battens make a huge difference, eliminating the floppy leech which I hated on my previous mainsail.

As others have said, jamming occurs when furling OUT, not in, and you learn pretty quickly how to prevent it.

As to furling off the wind -- you do have to at least partially depower the sail before furling -- feather the sail by putting the vang on and letting off the mainsheet, and/or slacking the outhaul. Note that it works much better on one tack rather than the other because of the direction of furling vs. position of the mast slot. On one tack (port on my boat), the sail has to turn almost 180 degrees to get onto the furler, if the boom is far out, and so naturally this means more friction and more load on the furling gear. On the starboard tack it's easy peasy -- hardly even have to depower the sail.

[daletournier]

Hi Dh, what would you consider a wide slot? Mine is 22mm, Sparcraft rig.

I understand what your saying regarding one tack is better than the other for furling and this sort of applies to my setup, except for the outhaul line runs down to the deck on the port side of the boom, on a starboard tack the furling line is hard against it.

Also the floppy leach thing does my head in also. My last boat had no stays, a large roachy fully batterned sail that looked like a wing, i often glanced up in admiration, that dosent happen now..lol.