Up to 40 feet for solo sailing?

[srem]

I didn't want to cause any fight over the term "blue water". I have just used it informally to identify a boat which is "seaworthy", because I do not intend to limit myself to coastal navigation. So, this is not a strict classification for a boat.



Concerning the CE classification, currently most sailboats in Europe are classified A with a 4 to 6 people crew, B with 8, C with 10....
But nearly all boats are A!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by srem

I didn't want to cause any fight over the term "blue water". I have just used it informally to identify a boat which is "seaworthy", because I do not intend to limit myself to coastal navigation. So, this is not a strict classification for a boat.



Concerning the CE classification, currently most sailboats in Europe are classified A with a 4 to 6 people crew, B with 8, C with 10....
But nearly all boats are A!

That's more to do with tankage A to sustain 4-6 people for a week before refill.. the others are coastal so harbour hoppers and refill every night..

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by srem

But nearly all boats are A!

Only from a certain size on. For example a MacGregor / Tattoo 26 is only Class C.

While most cruising sailboats over 40 have Class A, you can easily find motor-yachts over 60' that are only rated Class B (eg Fairline 68).

[waterman46]

Much depends on experience of the would-be solo skipper, and the boat, so setting a firm upper limit is unrealistic. There is no problem single-handing a larger boat as long as you are experienced with the boat, the autopilot is reliable, and you have a backup. And you must sail more conservatively (I'm thinking of downwind sails in particular) than if you had a crew.
The challenges of single-handing are actually far removed from limitations of the boat size. The real challenges are keeping a good lookout, getting enough rest and food, and psychological of just being alone on the sea in what can be a stressful environment at times.

The boat should be chosen to be large enough that you are happy with the amount of storage and it's sailing capabilities combined with ease of sail handling. If you go large, a split rig will reduce sail sizes.

To limit oneself to 30' or 34' would seem very strange to me.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Everyone keeps reading something different than what I wrote . I don't know why.

BLUEWATER is a classification of distance from shore ( ie: offshore.) . Not a type of boat.

Normally seen as being beyond the range of a land based rescue helicopter.
Which now days with the mh65c range is 400 miles RT so bluewater would be anything beyond the 200 mile mark .

8nsurance companies use that metric to evaluate risk assessment for insurability .
As well as various governments using a similar metric .

By CE both clas A and B would be considered bluewater .

“I know you think you believe you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is exactly what I meant.”

RMN...

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Well good luck to you, then. Try wrestling down the main or attempting to reef solo a 40' boat in heavy weather.

You obviously have a lot more single-handed sea time on many 40'+ boats than I do.

LittleWing77

When reefing is done right, there is no wrestling.

Any couple at sea on their boat with just the two of them, one of them (in our case it is just me) will always be able to reef the main in any weather, solo. It's nice to have the mate in the cockpit as lookout, but not essential. At least that's how we operate. We sail a 46' ketch.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Top size for single-handing would be 34' absolute maximum (30' tops is more realistic).

34'+ would be someone like Snore who has a 100ton Masters Licence and has been sailing his whole life.

LittleWing77

Another one of your erroneous statements. It depend solely on the boat...how it is set up and the physical condition of the person single handing. Hal Roth single-handed on a 50 footer in his 60's. Bernard Motessier sailed Joshua, a 41 ft. Ketch. Then there was also Dodge Morgan in his 60 ft. built by Hood in his mid 50's. While I was in Mexico sailing half the time on my Hallberg Rassy 35, it was not uncommon to see other single handers on 40 and above.

Today especially there are power winches, power windlass's and such to make it much easier than it was pre-2000.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by ChrisJD

Jeanne Socrates sailed a Najad 380 around the world solo a couple of years ago at 77 years old. A lot of similar boats will similarly be out of your budget (they’re competitors to and priced like a Hallberg Rassy), but an older model in that vein - center-cockpit boat from a Northern European make with an offshore pedigree is probably a good place to start. Obviously a newer model would be nice if you could stretch the budget, but the hulls are bulletproof.

Totally agree on both your points. Jeanne was a real inspiration to people, especially women single handing.

Older Hallberg Rassy's are a very good bargain. The HR 41 can be had for under $100K.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/hallberg-rassy-41

[Jim Cate]

All the talk about rasslin' the sails... sheesh! In a boat even slightly set up for solo sailing, the foresails are likely to be on furlers, so while at sea, no rasslin' needed. And the mainsail will either be furling or have slab reefing set up. Rasslin' is limited to hoisting, dropping (in the case of slabbers) and reefing, all of which are pretty easy to set up for soloing.

The only time larger sails are a task that might daunt a single hander is when the sail must be removed from the boat, and yep, that can be a struggle. I can not carry our mainsail by myself, or even with Ann's help... just too ungainly for us. But you know what? We have never wanted to do this at sea, and when alongside (where such an evolution is likely to take place) there have always been folks around to help. I bet that any solo sailor will find things to be similar for them.

So, my opinion is that the "sails are too big to handle" argument is fallacious. More difficult? Sure. Too difficult? Nah, don't think so.

Jim

[Celestialsailor]

Not mentioned so far it the type of main sail track used. Some slide like a dream while others you fight. I personally like the ones integral to the mast itself, not the rivet or screwed on tracks.

[excess_risk]

I too would like to solo after retirement. So very much enjoying this thread.

Something I haven’t seen discussed is insurance. Can the OP insure his investment if single handling his boat? Any info appreciated.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by excess_risk

I too would like to solo after retirement. So very much enjoying this thread.

Something I haven’t seen discussed is insurance. Can the OP insure his investment if single handling his boat? Any info appreciated.

No idea about the EU but here in America they don't ask about crew size just about cruising area .

[Clivevon]

Someone mentioned older North European boats. $100,000 = £72,000 GBP or Euro 84,000 so boats like a Hallberg Rassy 36 & bigger will be out of your budget especially if that figure includes the almost inevitable replacements or upgrades of sails, rigging or electronics you are likely to need on a 20 year old or older boat.

Someone else mentioned the Westerly Oceanlord. Here's a 1991 version under offer at £67500: https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...United-Kingdom

My boat is a 36 ft ketch from 1981, a Westerly Conway. Mine is not for sale but has had a fortune spent on upgrades & replacements over the 23 years I've owned her - you might get lucky & find something similar elsewhere for £30,000 to £45,000 depending on condition. Here are details of another couple of Conways: https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives.../conway-36.htm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgbo...nel=ApolloDuck

As to offshore capability, I have run the numbers over mine as best I can & came up with these (all using the standard 16,128 lbs displacement as quoted by Westerly - still not sure if that is empty or with a half load though. It might give you an idea of what is out there.
Ballast Ratio = 44.4%.
Sail Area/Displacement Ratio including mizzen = 15.5.
Displacement/Length (LWL) Ratio = 258.
Comfort Ratio = 29.4
Capsize screening Ratio = 1.8.

also see https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/i...r_Conway_1.pdf

You might also look at the Westerly Corsair 36 foot sloop (the Conway successor from a different designer) a very different boat but with a sturdy reputation & I would think a quicker sailer. Very much within your budget from the mid 1980s & very capable of what you want to do.

[Clivevon]

Other boats:
Rivals, Rustler 36, Tradewind 35 or 39, Swan (smaller & older S&S designs), Nich 35, 38, 39 or 40, Wauquiez Gladiateur, Vancouver 34, 34P or 36.

[Clivevon]

Quotes from YBW.com:
"Conways sail quite well upwind, ketches not as closewinded as sloops or either type as close as cruiser racers, but adequate nonetheless and capable of doing it in really dirty weather. Engines mostly Mercedes 42hp or Volvo 36hp as originals. Lots have done RTW trips." (mine now has a Beta 35 so others may have been re-engined).

"The centre cockpit on the Conway is a lot lower and as such feels (and looks) a lot more secure in a big sea. She is a powerful boat and they are currently fantastic value for money and I am always amazed that people prefer to pay more for a lightweight plastic fantastic. All I can think of is that they have not been caught out in a blow with big seas !

Seriously though, I know older traditional styled narrow beam boats are not fashionable these days but they really are great. I think the longish fin keel is the perfect compromise between a sea kindly long keel and a high performance narrow fin. If you look at the underwater profile you will see what I mean.

The only downsides are the higher maintenance costs associated with an older boat and that the loadings with a large rig and heavish hull are quite large and you may want to think of upsizing winches etc."