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DaveC426913 · 01-08-2019, 16:58

Love me my MacGregor 26X, but the First Mate sees some things wanting in it. So I'm considering my next boat.

I'd like some advice on where I might go online to compare makes and models.

I'm figuring something in the 29'-34' range. Small enough to single-hand, large enough to be roomy below, and not so tender as the lightweight Mac.

I am at a yacht club, so obvs the best thing I can do is check out other boats at the club. I crewed in club races for two years, so I'm not completely new to larger boats. I also went through Sailing courses, on a Beneteau 38. (Gotta love that motorized, in-mast furling!)

I've considered looking on 'boats for sale' sites, but they tend to focus on the specific boat and the gear it comes with. I'm not looking at that yet, just wanting to narrow down my options.

In the interest of getting the ball rolling, I'll go ahead and list my concerns and criteria.

My budget:
I dunno. 30K? Flexible.

My concerns:

Will an inboard engine be more than I can handle, having been coddled by an easy, reliable Honda BF50?
For that price, will I only get an old boat?
Are there concerns about boats from 70s-80s? I read somewhere that insurance companies don't like to insure them.
Am I going to regret giving up all the awesome features of my Mac? Hybrid motor/power, water ballast, trailerable, single-handed mast raising system, etc.? (Yes.)

My criteria:

Sailing on Great Lakes.
Cruising, not racing.
Small enough that it can be single-handed. Love me my Mac for single-handing. Don't even need to leave the helm. But I don't expect that convenience in a larger boat.
Multi-hulls are likely out of my price range.
Multi-masts OK, but as a rule, tend to be slower and don't point as high.

Mate's criteria:
(Mate loves sailing, but had a squall experience that has left her with PTSD)

Feeling safe in cockpit (high coaming). (Mac's coaming is only about 12 inches)
Stable - little heel (I've learned to reef the main at all times for her comfort)
Mate likes the Nonsuch for its roominess below. But that can get expensive.
Must have a berth (V or master) that can be sat down into (as opposed to climbing into) for aging knees.

Spindrift NH · 01-08-2019, 19:18

‘88-‘89 Catalina 30.
You should be able to get a good one for low $20’s.
Roomy inside, large T cockpit, easily singlehanded, insurable, and many other pluses.
Not trailerable though.

Fbfisher · 01-08-2019, 23:01

Single handed sailing has more to do with the set up of the running rigging than with the size of the boat. I single hand our B423 often, often when my wife is aboard, but that’s another story.

Not sure where you currently park your Mac, but the monthly cost of a slip and bottom cleaning alone will likely add a significant amount of money out of your pocket each month.

Happy hunting!

DaveC426913 · 02-08-2019, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

Single handed sailing has more to do with the set up of the running rigging than with the size of the boat. I single hand our B423 often, often when my wife is aboard, but that’s another story.

Yes, I'll be sure to run lines aft to the pit; I was more concerned about things like raising the main, reefing or furling on a larger boat.

Also, my boat is light enough that I only every use winches in winds over 10-12 knots. EZ-cleats on the fairleads are the best thing since sliced bread! So there's another thing I'll miss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

Not sure where you currently park your Mac, but the monthly cost of a slip and bottom cleaning alone will likely add a significant amount of money out of your pocket each month.

I am in a slip at a Yacht Club. So cost is already figured in.

Frankly, bottom cleaning will be the one thing that easier with a boat that goes on a cradle. Trying to powerwash the bottom on a trailer is quite a pain.

DaveC426913 · 02-08-2019, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spindrift NH

‘88-‘89 Catalina 30.
You should be able to get a good one for low $20’s.
Roomy inside, large T cockpit, easily singlehanded, insurable, and many other pluses.
Not trailerable though.

Thanks. Catalina 30 is certainly common. Lots of them at my club.
Not sure how it compares with other similar boats.

Fbfisher · 02-08-2019, 13:41

Electric winches and furling sails solve both of those issues.

**TrentePieds** · 03-08-2019, 11:37

Quote: “I'd like some advice on where I might go online to compare makes and models.”

Go here: https://sailboatdata.com/ to get the basic numbers, the general arrangement drawings and the sail plans of a vast variety of sailboats. This should be your basic reference as you begin your search.

I think you need to start from the realization that the McGregor is not a particularly sound device for starting your sailing career. It was produced by McGregor to capture a market of innocents, and it did that wonderfully. It is neither fish nor fowl, not good read meat, and the habits inculcated by spending time in such a boat are not likely to be germane to handling a real cruising boat, not can it teach you much about seamanship and skippering.

Having thus declared my biasses :-) I hope you will not think what I say below to be unduly harsh. Please accept that I say it in hopes of setting you to thinking along lines that will make your future seafaring a pleasure, rather than a trial to yourself and others.

And please accept my assurance that CF is here to help. We can, however, only do that if you do a substantial amount of homework in regard to refining your thoughts, and if questions you ask us are formulated to be quite specific.

So here goes :-):

Quote:”I dunno. 30K? Flexible.”

That's good. That's enuff to start with. However, you need to split your amount, whatever it may be, $10K for first year's OWNERSHIP EXPENSES and the remainder can be available for ACQUISITION COSTS.

Quote: “Will an inboard engine be more than I can handle, having been coddled by an easy, reliable Honda BF50?”

Why should it be? Diesels are inherently more durable than outboards, even Hondas, and they require less maintenance. And they start, like your Honda by just turning a key.

Quote: “For that price, will I only get an old boat?”

Yes. Obviously! With 20 grand to spend on the purchase you SHOULD be looking at boats 35 or 40 years old. Nothing wrong with that. Frozen snot boats don't die. They have to be assassinated!

Quote: “Are there concerns about boats from 70s-80s? I read somewhere that insurance companies don't like to insure them.”

There should be no concerns. As for Hull Insurance, a clear survey on a frozen snot boat is all most underwriters require. Any other construction material is likely to be turned down except VERY expensive “composite” construction. As for the Liability insurance, the underwriters' “marine specialist” will look at YOUR qualifications and experience, but this consideration carries over into the assessment of some of the risks covered by the hull insurance, wherefore hull insurance could be refused, not because the boat isn't “fit for her trade”, but because the underwriter has no confidence in your skippering skills.

Quote: “Am I going to regret giving up all the awesome features of my Mac? Hybrid motor/power, water ballast, trailerable, single-handed mast raising system, etc.? (Yes.)”

In what way are those features “awsome”? Be specific! What do you mean “hybrid”? You are either a sailing vessel or you are a motor vessel. Different COLREGs apply. Best not to get confused! Water ballast? Whatever for? Water ballast is a McGregor device made into a selling point, just as is the “hybrid” nonsense, because those who buy new McGregors generally know very little about sailing. Water ballast has SOME merit in that you can ditch the ballast when trailering, but in a real cruising boat having ballast in the form of water is detrimental. Trailerable? Okay, but if that is a requirement, you may just as well give up looking for a cruising boat. Single-handed mast raising? In crusing boats the mast stays up the entire time, so in the ordinary course of events there is zero mast raising.

Quote: “Sailing on Great Lakes. Cruising, not racing.”

Fine, The Lakes are just inland seas. You handle a boat on the Lakes just as you handle a boat on the Briney. Thus good ocean cruising boats are also good Lakes cruising boats.

Quote: “Small enough that it can be single-handed. Love me my Mac for single-handing. Don't even need to leave the helm. But I don't expect that convenience in a larger boat.

You can singlehand anything up to about 70 feet. It depends on how the boat is rigged, and it depends on the quality of your seamanship. In “real life”, in a real cruising boat, you WANT to be able to leave the helm! You cannot learn seamanship in a McGregor. If that is where you got you start I recommend you progress by way of a monohull in the 30-foot range and work up.

Quote: ”Multi-hulls are likely out of my price range.”

Yes, they likely are. Why would you want one anyway? No shame in wanting one. You just need to know with precision WHY you want it.

Quote: “Multi-masts OK, but as a rule, tend to be slower and don't point as high.”

For 20K acquisition cost you aren't going to get a two-sticker, so this needn't concern you at this time.

Quote: “Stable - little heel (I've learned to reef the main at all times for her comfort)”

Monohull sailboats are designed to REQUIRE a heel of 12 to 15 degrees to sail efficiently. If that is intolerable there are two remedies: 1) get a catamaran 2) stay ashore. We can come back to the question of reefing once you've got some experience behind you in a crusing boat :-)

Quote: “Mate likes the Nonsuch for its roominess below. But that can get expensive.”

We all like roominess, but we all must compromise. Consider that displacement, and therefore the cost of ALL things, increases according to the increase in waterline length taken to the third power. If you do that, you won't go far wrong. Thus, if you go from 30 to 40 feet LWL, the costs increase by a factor of 2 because 1.3 x 1.3 x 1.3 = 2.2 With a budget of 30K total you are pretty much confined to a 28 or 30 foot monohull. If you go from 28 to 55 feet, the cost increases by a factor of 8. EIGHT!!

Quote: “Must have a berth (V or master) that can be sat down into (as opposed to climbing into) for aging knees.”

Well of course! That is in fact how most cruising boats are arranged. The classic “V” berth forward. You will find, however, that from women's point of view the toilet facilities are MUCH more critical. Generally the toilet compartments are so narrow that “doing the paperwork” is very difficult, and many women have misgivings about the need to pump out the bowl rather than just flushing as land lubbers do. But I'm sure you know about that from the McGregor.

All the best

TrentePieds

MSN-Travelers · 03-08-2019, 16:02

Hey Dave,

I had to chuckle when I read your post. I started with a MacGregor 26M with a 50HP o/b on the stern. Loved that boat . . . until we moved it to the Great Lakes (Lake Michigan). Less than a month into our second season on the big lake, my wife declared "We need a bigger boat". Getting launch off the port-a-pot when hit by a puff over the starboard side may have had something to do with it.

We did an ASA school on a 36 footer and did a short bareboat charter on a 31 footer to help us figure out what size boat we would be comfortable with. We settled on a boat that was in the 34-36 foot range, with the running rigging lead aft, as the largest boat we would want to own.

You can do all the research and evaluation that you want but your wife will have the final word based on what is below deck. A flush toilet, hot & cold running water and refrigeration are pretty much standard on a cruising boat.

The MacGregor is virtually maintenance free compared a fixed keel sailboat 30 ft or bigger . . . and everything costs a lot more to replace. I have had minimal expense except for upgrades to the various bits of electronic gear (AIS radio with remote mike, chart plotter at the helm and I am about to upgrade the OEM autopilot). Also replaced the OEM sails this year and they cost half the price of a new 26M with 50HP motor.

The boat budget should include the basic cost of the boat plus 5K-10K in initial upgrades. You will be very fortunate to find a $30K freshwater boat in sail away condition.

We bought a 1999 Beneteau Oceanis 352 in 2009 for roughly 70K. 27hp diesel inboard with furling foresail and in-mast furling main. All lines lead aft to the cockpit. A dream to sail with just two people, easy to single hand with autopilot assist on tacks and a little more challenging without due to winch locations. I never have to leave the cockpit unless I want to. We have found ourselves out in a 30 kt blow with 6-8 foot (or greater) wave and the boat was rock solid.

I don't think you will find a boat in your price range that will have berths that don't involve some crawling.

Good luck with your search and make sure your wife has some input if you ever hope to do much more than day sailing.

Paul
'99 Beneteau Oceanis 352, hull 282
S/V WiTCHCRAFT, SSYC Milwaukee, WI

alansmith · 03-08-2019, 17:26

Dave, I don’t why people have to knock other people’s boats. There are so many types of boats with different rigs, materials used to build, hull configurations, engine setups, the list is practically endless.

There are guys I have seen take their McGregors to the Bahamas, Caicos, and Turks. Gone for 3-4 months and had fabulous times on a cheap, trailerable, swing keel, and outboard motor. Then used the boat later that year to plunk around Lake Powell. So, if you have the spirit to do some exploring it is the team on the boat that determines the limits of the boat.

I bought my 30 foot Condor trimaran for 22,500 dollars. She is trailerable and has an outboard engine. I draw less than 2 foot with centerboard up. I keep her on a trailer in Mexico. I have no desires to cross large empty oceans. I am strictly an island hopper or coastal guy. I love to explore.

Dave, with trailerable boats you control your costs much better than an in the water, 365days/yr guy. My boat hasn’t had a bottom job in 4 years, no paint either. I pay about 1000 dollars year for my storage. I don’t have to pay divers to scrub. I don’t have electrolysis issues or engine repairs other than drive fluid replacement a year. The boats sails are stored below when not in use. My sails are 15 plus years old and still good. Because they aren’t out in the sun constantly.

Many sailors would not like the boat because it is tight inside. But she would shame 90 percent of all the skippers’s boats on here for speed and comfort in a seaway. She is a wicked little witch when their is a breeze.

So, my slant is multihull and trailers. With such you can trailer to any venue you wish and drop her in. That is an unbelievable advantage. Done sailing the Bahamas or Lake Ontario for the month... put her back on the trailer.

You don’t need a 40 foot boat to prove you know seamanship or cross the Grand Banks. Guys do it all the time on F27’s. Figure out budgets and what keeps the admiral happy. If mama ain’t happy ....

Stu Jackson · 03-08-2019, 18:00

"Graduating" to a larger boat can be fun and easy if you approach it properly. Things are different, but comparing things that are new to what you have and like may not be the best way to begin. [We moved to BC from California 3+ years ago, and I still have to remind my wife that her hairdresser doesn't live here when she comes back with a "do" she doesn't like!

] And don't get me started on the price of rum and tequila!!!

I owned a Catalina 22 for 5 years starting 1982. In 1987 we bought a Catalina 25 and it was twice the volume, like moving to the Titanic from a rowboat!

We had that boat for 13 years and bought this one in 1998. Same "Dear, we need a bigger boat." Hot water, stability, standing headroom, biggest V berth in this size boat of any, real galley, lights...

I singlehand the boat all the time, not because nobody wants to come with me but because my wife is the full time caregiver for her 98 year old father.

I liked the smaller boats 'cuz I didn't have to learn how to service outboard engines, I just took 'em off and brought them into the repair shop.

When you buy a bigger boat, you will go broke if you have anyone else do any work.

Hence, you become a mechanic, diesel engine repair guy, plumber and electrician.

When we bought this boat, all the information available on the internet simply wasn't there. So I bought books, the best still is Calder's Boatowners Manual for Mechanical & Electrical Systems.

THOSE are the challenges you'll have, not the sailing.

That's the easy part.

The rest of your question is essentially "What boat should I buy?"

No one can answer that for you. You and you alone along with your wife are the ONLY people who can answer that one.

Good luck, have fun hunting, and all the best for you on your new boat.

alansmith · 03-08-2019, 18:28

If anyone is interested... check out Summer’s Home Page. He modified his MacGregor and spent lots of time on her. He is one of more interesting guys I have ever read and followed. Very good fabrication skills and good human being. But he took his MacGregor all over the place. Check out his webpage. Has some excellent ideas. 1fatgmc.com

Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

alansmith · 03-08-2019, 18:31

Dave, BTW, his 37 foot Endeavor, I See, is for sale. If you learn about this guy you will understand why I say ... ‘you might want to take a look at that boat. The guy is a precision guy... everything well thought out and executed. He is fastidious about his boat. Everything first class.

DaveC426913 · 03-08-2019, 20:45

We Mac owners, as a breed, tend to develop a tough undercoat, from other sailors AND power boaters.

Not only do we get a constant string of "not a real boat" comments, but they tend to be laced with at least some level of ignorance about Macs.

I'll just address a few things.

Quote: