US quality boats

[Rumrace]

The Mid Engine corvette was a failure. The only one got destroyed when the Corvette Museum fell in. I have an LS3 in a Donzi 18 and I love love love the motor but GM blows dead bears.
You can tell them over and over again their power boats are famous, doesn’t matter. GM never paid back their loan to Ontario so we are happy to boycott them on all fleet sales. Toyota Ford Honda no worries.
The Corvette and Cadillac divisions should escape the smucks.
Corvette is like a bargain McLaren. I’ve owned C2, C4, C5. All a pain on maintenance but fantastic cars. I replaced my C4 with a BMW which was slightly less money way more car.
Everything made in Elk Grove Village Chicago and Detroit is now made in China.
Why would you expect quality world leading product let alone yachts?
Probably another 40 pages of no will sink in. The US has 20 brands of TV we will never see because of barrier taxes. (Enabler's tax) 1600 chemicals in food we will never eat.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

The Mid Engine corvette was a failure. The only one got destroyed when the Corvette Museum fell in.

It’s such a failure that they are all mid engine now

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Chris31415

How about Island Packet? Too niche?

I'm pretty sure now that my next Sailboat is going to be an Iland Packet. They are clearly solidly built Cruising Sailboats for Sailboat Cruisers, and thank God have pretty much Zero input from Sailboat Racing, which other makes, in what has been a long search since losing my last boat - I haven't had the Funds for another Sailboat since - seem to have totally lost their Mibds over. But every boat is a Compromise, and being disabled now, I need some pretty special Compromises, and which for Compromises than must lean heavily in Favour of what I need, to be able to ne in a Sailboat in Comfort and Safety again, and which maybe will be my last Sailboat, The List of Standard Construction Options with Island Pa kit Tick pretty much all, of not All of the Things I need. So much so, in fact, that compared to retrofitting a Secondhand boat, just saving the Labour costs involved in a retrofit, easily covers the price difference with getting a New Island Packet. Do Chainplates continue to be an issue? Probably not, but I'll check when placing an order. Sadly I can't fit in what I need with the IP 349, and if younger and fitter, you'd have to lever one of those out of my cold dead hands, so it's going to be an IP 439 with its Aft Cockpit which I need to get on and off the Dinghy, 5ft Draft 👍 No Stupid Twin Rudders to have breaking things "Fun" up and down the US East Coast,and for people who think they Sail like a brick, a Hullspeed of 8.27 knots. which can get me, Delivery Skipper and Crew Well Fed, well Watered, and Well Comfortable to sleep on, Where I want to go. tbh, I think it's a bit odd, that Island Packet, have only had the too niche comment in this Thread so far. 🤔

[Ribbit]

Er, to be Frank, Europe is home to lots of *Formerly* Quality Brands, I've been working my way through them, searching for what will be my Next Sailboat, and being Blunt, Most have completely Lost the Plot. If Cruising, you Need a Shallow Draft - guess what Dehler calls a Shallow Draft? 7ft 1 inch I kid you not, the rest are around 2 meters Try finding a New Sailboat that Does Not Have Twin Rudders! Sirius makes beautifully Built Sailboats, but I do not want a Boat with Glass Walled Greenhouse called a Deck Saloon on it. Dufour builds beautiful well built Boats but Shallow Draft is 5ft 8 inches, which is 8 inches too Deep for a Cruiser, and 5ft keeps you out of places you can get into with 4ft, but running into sheltered small Bays with a 5ft Draft, can generally get enough water at low tide, to wait out a Storm. You also see lots of Racing Nonsense that's hazardous, such as Mainsheet Tracks across the Cickpit. etc, etc, etc. Too much Racing/Racing, not enough Cruising / Cruising. .it's been a very disappointing search, and then Island Packet Cropped up somewhere, and got lept on by airhead comments too slow, useless Sailboats, Sail like Bricks, and other less complementary comments, and I thought hang on, if brain dead Morons are badmouthing them, then There's a Good chance they build really nice NOT Racing Boats , but Cruising Boats so I took a close look, and Bingo, exactly what I NEED Finally, The Long now 7 year March is over. ❤️

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

Er, to be Frank, Europe is home to lots of *Formerly* Quality Brands, I've been working my way through them, searching for what will be my Next Sailboat, and being Blunt, Most have completely Lost the Plot. If Cruising, you Need a Shallow Draft - guess what Dehler calls a Shallow Draft? 7ft 1 inch I kid you not, the rest are around 2 meters Try finding a New Sailboat that Does Not Have Twin Rudders! Sirius makes beautifully Built Sailboats, but I do not want a Boat with Glass Walled Greenhouse called a Deck Saloon on it. Dufour builds beautiful well built Boats but Shallow Draft is 5ft 8 inches, which is 8 inches too Deep for a Cruiser, and 5ft keeps you out of places you can get into with 4ft, but running into sheltered small Bays with a 5ft Draft, can generally get enough water at low tide, to wait out a Storm. You also see lots of Racing Nonsense that's hazardous, such as Mainsheet Tracks across the Cickpit. etc, etc, etc. Too much Racing/Racing, not enough Cruising / Cruising. .it's been a very disappointing search, and then Island Packet Cropped up somewhere, and got lept on by airhead comments too slow, useless Sailboats, Sail like Bricks, and other less complementary comments, and I thought hang on, if brain dead Morons are badmouthing them, then There's a Good chance they build really nice NOT Racing Boats , but Cruising Boats so I took a close look, and Bingo, exactly what I NEED Finally, The Long now 7 year March is over. ❤️

Who do you call “brain dead Morons”? Did you read forum rules?

I guess that whoever doesn’t agree with you is a M? I was close to buying an IP until I found it didn’t even have a chart table

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Sirius.

I Really like Sirius, and they were top of my Next Boat Short List. BUT, I'm heading to the Tropics with Next Sailboat, And do I really want a Glass Walled Greenhouse called a "Deck Saloon" slapped on a boat ? Well my father's small Conservatory Faces East, and even at this Northern Latitude gets unbearably Hot, even on a sunny Winter's Morning, with Frost on the Ground. For Baltic, North Sea, and Irish Sea use, try keeping me away from one. Torsten is as top a Guy as his Sirius Company is too. and I'd love to buy a Bpat off him, but luckily his order book is already into 2027 I believe, so they should all be OK. fingers crossed. 👍

[Eder]

You'll be happy with an that IP but a 460 (not sure what that model # is now) might be more room for one with a disability and special needs.


Mine has endless storage and room with an aft garage for easy access to water maker, generator and when shtf easy to get in to pull out the drogue or heaven forbid the raft.
Good comfortable blue water boat needing minimal supervision while it crosses oceans for you.

Worth a look if you can find one for sale.

[Ribbit]

Beam with Chines carried aft can be ok with a good below the waterline Hull Design, but Twin Rudders are an inexcusable disaster on a Cruising Sailboat, with a Chine carried aft Beamy boat which needs to be kept as Mast vertical as possible, with very little heeling, a single Rudder works perfectly(see Dufour and a couple of others for confirmation), plus provides indispensable Weather Helm Feedback, and a single Rudder also doesn't suck for low speed Manouverability in tight spaces does it?

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

Exactly and U.S. consumers seem to like these designs with their big windows , plumb bows , bright interiors ,pastel shades , open decks because they buy catamarans from Europe with exactly these design traits in the thousands every year.

Yet U.S. mono designs have not moved at all - most current models are at least 12/14 year old designs and very conservative and old school. Seems like they have not responded to changing tastes and have a limited audience. Even looking at the Tartan website it’s failed to modernise and fails to really market their product.

When I was choosing a boat I couldn’t find a single U.S. mono builder that came anywhere close to my needs. The skills are there, the yards are there and there is a massive market right on the doorstep but nobody is stepping up.

I think the way to look at it, is to consider things that say 1970's Sailboats lacked, and it wasn't good Hull Designs was it. What they lacked was ease of getting on and off the boat via the Dinghy, large comfortable aft Cockpits to facilitate access too and from the Dinghy, a Companionway that wasn't a vertical ladder to fall off and crack your Skull, a below Decks people could stand up in and Comfortable Berths, withbenough of them, and more than one Head and Shower. For me, Island Packet have done something about things that didn't work, have kept things that did work, and have added things that also work. It's very much in fact, how we ended up with the truly Wonderful Common Law Constitution, and is an example of doing things properly, instead of faffing around with silly "Wouldn't it be Nice IF's"which end up withnus having really Stupid Twin rudders on a Cruising Boat ! Whoever thought that was a good idea, clearly has never cruised through a Lobster and Crab Pot infested area like the East Coast of the USA Have They ? ffs they're even ruining Amel with the damned things. 🤔

[OneBoatman]

And the best sailboat for most people that aren't mega rich has always been based on what type of sailing you plan to do. Compromise yes, almost all boats do some things well, some do most things well, and very few do all things well. So much depends on your skill as a sailor by that I mean the sum total of your efficiency and agility, knowledge about weather and maintenance, and having the judgement to know both your own limitations and that of your boat. Everyone in North America doesn't need a Hinckley, Custom built S&S or a Morris, to be comfortable and safe in the ocean. Money can buy you a lot and even help when you make a mistake but not everybody has it and most are doing with a lot less. Certainly, a large aft cockpit Island Packet, or a Caliber which I don't see talked about much are pretty well built and probably meet your needs. Plain and simple seems to work well. How often have you actually seen a sailboat with a reverse transom that has well engineered, functional davits? Do you really need the huge beam of a sled or two of everything to be comfortable? Speed is nice but it also demands your attention and can wear you out if you choose a boat that doesn't have a rig that makes it easier for you to balance the helm. In the ocean I favor the ride of a moderately heavy ballasted boat with a gentle entry, long keel with a separate rudder hanging behind a strut. Boats with a radically cutaway forefoot often tend to slap when the waves are steep, and if you are on the hook trying to sleep in the aft cabin of many of the lighter ballasted boats with reverse transoms you are likely to hear the slap of waves right through the hull.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by OneBoatman

[…]and if you are on the hook trying to sleep in the aft cabin of many of the lighter ballasted boats with reverse transoms you are likely to hear the slap of waves right through the hull.

I remember this when in marinas but not on the hook, where wave don’t come from astern

For those on a budget… I don’t think I see the good old Beneteau 50 mentioned?! This is all you need for a blue water world cruiser. A solid boat, designed by Bruce Farr, derived from the First 53f5 which can be considered the racing version with Pininfarina interior! and which itself is a direct descendant from a Whitbread racer.

https://www.beneteau.com/first-1988-1992/first-53f5

https://www.beneteau.com/oceanis-1991-1994/beneteau-50

A Beneteau 50 has been chartered by the thousands in the 4-cabin, 4-head version and this makes an ideal candidate to transform to a live aboard cruiser. You can convert one head to a wet locker, another to a pantry, a cabin to a workshop etc. Put a nice dinghy hoist & solar array arch on the stern, a solid Bimini over the cockpit, a code zero on a furler and off you go.

[bgallinger]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

One of the sturdiest and finest is Gozzard. Made in USA in the state of Ontario. Ontario is also my favorite state north of the Mason Dixie. The factory is a short drive from either Buffalo or Michigan.

Good grief. Well anyway, Gozzard is located in the town of Goderich in the province of Ontario in Canada.
I'm not sure if Americans would like to be confused with Canadians!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

Good grief. Well anyway, Gozzard is located in the town of Goderich in the province of Ontario in Canada.
I'm not sure if Americans would like to be confused with Canadians!

Here in Australia Ann and I are often thought to be Canadian, likely from our polyglot accent. We take it as an unintentional compliment. I'm not so sure that the good citizens of Ontario feel the same way about being taken for Yanks!

Jim