Vendee 2020

[wolfgal]

unless i am wrong, there is no drone or satellite locating potential impact debris in the seas in front of these vessels. is this true?

if so, is this wise? the speed involved is absolutely terrific... i cannot help but recalling that long-ago, black-n-white clip of a motorcraft hitting something mysterious in Loch Ness...


in any case, i'm sooooo very excited about the females participating this year, especially Pip!
Jocelyn Nash would be thrilled!



wolfie

[DomPerignon]

At the expense of speed these boats should all be built of aluminum, nearly indestructible . They should leave those fancy composites to the America's Cup and other near shore events.

[Franziska]

Well.

Have a look at what, for example a formula one cars monocoque has to be able to withstand.
It's designed to be run against a concrete wall at very high speed and not fail.
It's not made of aluminium.

I am not saying that aluminum is a bad material, but properly designed composite structures can be equally well, if not better built.

In my eyes it's a different issue.
The margin of error permissible in engineering these structures is so thin and the precise knowledge of the loads is limited too, especially if you consider that the boats get their real test in the race, that you are almost bound to have failures.

In case of composites you can at least design organic structural shapes with optimized load paths.

At this level of competition the same would happen if everyone would be forced to use aluminum or any other material.

There was an attempt by an American many years ago to race an Open 60 called "Imagine" in the than "BOC" called race many years ago.
"Imagine" was the only aluminum boat in the fleet as I recall.
It did not make it and a composite boat won.

As far as I remember "Imagine" was designed to ABYS race boat scantlings, but it failed anyway. Most likely because the load assumptions where not matching the actual loads.

Built it to strong, and your lighter competitor might win. Built it to weak and your stronger competitors will win.
They are at the cutting edge and the margins are thin.

Now as to repairability during the race, I am convinced that a composite structure has a better chance to be fixed under way than a metal structure.
You can "slap on some carbon and epoxy" on a moving boat. Try to weld something....

Apart from that it's easier to take a proper composite repair kit with you.

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

At the expense of speed these boats should all be built of aluminum, nearly indestructible . They should leave those fancy composites to the America's Cup and other near shore events.

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Well.

Have a look at what, for example a formula one cars monocoque has to be able to withstand.
It's designed to be run against a concrete wall at very high speed and not fail.
It's not made of aluminium.

I am not saying that aluminum is a bad material, but properly designed composite structures can be equally well, if not better built.

In my eyes it's a different issue.
The margin of error permissible in engineering these structures is so thin and the precise knowledge of the loads is limited too, especially if you consider that the boats get their real test in the race, that you are almost bound to have failures.

In case of composites you can at least design organic structural shapes with optimized load paths.

At this level of competition the same would happen if everyone would be forced to use aluminum or any other material.

There was an attempt by an American many years ago to race an Open 60 called "Imagine" in the than "BOC" called race many years ago.
"Imagine" was the only aluminum boat in the fleet as I recall.
It did not make it and a composite boat won.

As far as I remember "Imagine" was designed to ABYS race boat scantlings, but it failed anyway. Most likely because the load assumptions where not matching the actual loads.

Built it to strong, and your lighter competitor might win. Built it to weak and your stronger competitors will win.
They are at the cutting edge and the margins are thin.

Now as to repairability during the race, I am convinced that a composite structure has a better chance to be fixed under way than a metal structure.
You can "slap on some carbon and epoxy" on a moving boat. Try to weld something....

Apart from that it's easier to take a proper composite repair kit with you.

Well said. An intelligent and well thought response to a rather baseless initial statement.

N

[Franziska]

Correction.

Apparently they even broke some ringframes in the bow onboard of "Imagine" before even getting into the race 1992.
The boat & skipper Michael Carr were unfortunately enough to run out of funds before even hitting the starting line.

[B23iL23]

this race is all about speed and aluminium <> speed. Too heavy, too slow, no chance of foiling and would turn this into a completely different race.

This is the F1 of offshore racing, it's about pushing the limits that the boat and the one crew and take.

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

At the expense of speed these boats should all be built of aluminum, nearly indestructible . They should leave those fancy composites to the America's Cup and other near shore events.

[MicHughV]

I read or saw somewhere that these Imoca boats are fitted with some kind of camera eye on top of the mast to alert them about possible collision with a floating container, whale, iceberg, etc...
I think this eye can see around 600 M in front of the boat...or around 2000' or so....
considering that at 30 mph, you are covering 44' per second...you have about 45 seconds to do something...before wham!!

I believe there is an alarm involved, ie, the camera "sees" something, and an alarm goes off...
I'm thinking to myself.....I'm sound asleep....the alarm goes off...at first I think it's a dream....5 seconds gone...then my mind has to grasp the noise....ie....wtf...another 10 seconds gone...then I have to scramble to the autopilot settings....another 15 second gone...leaving me with about 15 seconds to take evasive action...
If you happen to be using the head at this particular when the alarm goes off...?????

While I'm thrilled to be following this race, I gotta take my hat off to the entrants....it is, unquestionably, a brutal event of physical demands on both boat and skipper......

[DomPerignon]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

Well said. An intelligent and well thought response to a rather baseless initial statement.

N

How about wood ?

[Franziska]

Wonder fibre W. Well if you talk about modern wooden boat building you can consider that the same as composite.

The same structural principles apply.

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

How about wood ?

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

How about wood ?

How about it? The Vendee Globe is all all-out race at the pinnacle of the sport and the French know how to build a solid carbon boat. Seems logical for a global drag race you’d use the best material you can get your hands on...

Anyway, back to the race. Shame for AT and we’ll see if he can get the repairs done and get cracking again. Maybe Le Cam choosing a boat less cutting edge will end up being more reliable?

N

[Chotu]

Precisely!!

Originally Posted by Franziska

Well.

Have a look at what, for example a formula one cars monocoque has to be able to withstand.
It's designed to be run against a concrete wall at very high speed and not fail.
It's not made of aluminium.

I am not saying that aluminum is a bad material, but properly designed composite structures can be equally well, if not better built.

In my eyes it's a different issue.
The margin of error permissible in engineering these structures is so thin and the precise knowledge of the loads is limited too, especially if you consider that the boats get their real test in the race, that you are almost bound to have failures.

In case of composites you can at least design organic structural shapes with optimized load paths.

At this level of competition the same would happen if everyone would be forced to use aluminum or any other material.

There was an attempt by an American many years ago to race an Open 60 called "Imagine" in the than "BOC" called race many years ago.
"Imagine" was the only aluminum boat in the fleet as I recall.
It did not make it and a composite boat won.

As far as I remember "Imagine" was designed to ABYS race boat scantlings, but it failed anyway. Most likely because the load assumptions where not matching the actual loads.

Built it to strong, and your lighter competitor might win. Built it to weak and your stronger competitors will win.
They are at the cutting edge and the margins are thin.

Now as to repairability during the race, I am convinced that a composite structure has a better chance to be fixed under way than a metal structure.
You can "slap on some carbon and epoxy" on a moving boat. Try to weld something....

Apart from that it's easier to take a proper composite repair kit with you.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

... Maybe Le Cam choosing a boat less cutting edge will end up being more reliable?



N

Le Cam’s boat was cutting edge back in 2007 and won the race 2008-2009.

Now, it is several generations behind in design and presumably has had lots of major work to make it reliable and competitive. That doesn’t make it a better boat for the race, but a reasonable one that with luck (weather routing) and very hard work Jean Le Cam can drive to a podium.

Racing with a boat that is 10% slower than the top competitors is not the easiest way to win the Vendee Globe.

[BlueChicago]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I read or saw somewhere that these Imoca boats are fitted with some kind of camera eye on top of the mast to alert them about possible collision with a floating container, whale, iceberg, etc...
I think this eye can see around 600 M in front of the boat...or around 2000' or so....
considering that at 30 mph, you are covering 44' per second...you have about 45 seconds to do something...before wham!!

I believe there is an alarm involved, ie, the camera "sees" something, and an alarm goes off...
I'm thinking to myself.....I'm sound asleep....the alarm goes off...at first I think it's a dream....5 seconds gone...then my mind has to grasp the noise....ie....wtf...another 10 seconds gone...then I have to scramble to the autopilot settings....another 15 second gone...leaving me with about 15 seconds to take evasive action...
If you happen to be using the head at this particular when the alarm goes off...?????

Links to a few articles on the OSCAR system, as well as a link to the manufacturer:


https://sailuniverse.com/2020/07/10/...ar-technology/


https://www.boatindustry.com/news/35...e-vendee-globe


https://www.sail-world.com/news/2328...obe-collisions


https://www.oscar-navigation.com

[courtox]

Alex Thomson shares an update following the news announced yesterday by his team, that he had discovered structural damage on the HUGO BOSS yacht, 13 days into the Vendée Globe.

“It was a bit of a shock at first but obviously it could have been a lot worse. It’s repairable and we’re not yet in the southern ocean.

“I called my technical team and they got the right group of people together – the designers, the engineers, the team. While they were digesting the information, that was my time to sleep. Knowing it was going to be a big job to get it all done, I got myself about six hours sleep so that I’d be ready.

“Then we started running through the repair plan so that I could fully understand it and ask the right questions. The first part of that was to stabilise the hull so that involved some cutting, gluing and bolting. That’s done now and it’s been laminated. The next part is to get the rest of the repair prepped. I need to get all the materials together and do as much of the cutting now while it’s still light. Then the rest of it doesn’t matter because it’s in the bow and it’s dark in there anyway. It’s really humid up in there. But we carry quite a lot of materials – under-water resin, glues that can deal with humid conditions – so the materials can deal with it quite well. I imagine a lot of teams don’t carry as much as we do.

“I’m in a rhythm now so I’ll keep going for as long as I can. It’s quite an intricate job so I can’t rush it and I need to make sure it’s right.

“I’m disappointed obviously but this is the Vendée Globe. This is what it entails. You’ve got to be able to deal with this stuff. This is why we carry these materials and tools, and why we’re generally very good at being able to deal with these things. Normally I feel angry and sad and emotional but I don’t this time. I just need to get on with it. I’m sure at some point the emotions may go the other way but, for now, there is only one thing to do and that is to get the job done as best as I possibly can. I will do whatever it takes to stay in the race”.

https://youtu.be/nTNypDPGCos

[courtox]

Ales is back in the VDG race?



Incredible !!