Weeping Keel Bolts

[Gripfast]

My 04 Beneteau 361 has two keel bolts that seep or weep water into the bilge. They are the front two bolts and I have undoubtedly caused this buy several soft groundings in the last few years. The attached link shows the bolts with a little rust stain around the square washers. The boat is on the hard now and there is no evident crack on the seal between the keel and the hull. I am sure there is some opening there when the boat is in the water, and I suppose it really doesnt have to be much of an opeing.
Is this something I need to do something about now or am I worrying about nothing. The Yard manager says to fix it, I am looking at $4 to $5 K. Seems that I could remove each bolt, inspect and replace if damaged, then screw them in 3 or 4 threads, raise the boat just enough to lift a little weight off the keel and open the joint, clean old sealant from the top of the keel and the hull, then reseal and set the boat back down on the keel. But I have never done any work on the keel of a 36 ft boat......so not sure if that even makes sense or is doeable. But this yard guy doesnt even think I should remove one boat at a time to inspect. He thinks I will screw up the seal with just one bolt out and then the keel will have to be removed and reset.
What do you folks think? Anyone ever performed a similar repair?

[Sam Woodbridge]

I’m sorry I’m no help, but I’m so curious to see what the forum’s members have to say!

[gamayun]

Does it taste salty or fresh? If you truly have a leak that is getting up inside the bolts and into the bilge, then you need to fix that first. If your keel to hull joint looks fine, you should try to find the source. You could be getting a small amount coming in from the mast or maybe the anchor hawsepipe (?).

[JPA Cate]

You have an iron keel. The iron bits will rust, and expand. You do not want this to get to a full blown iron keel repair job, which involves removing at least part of one side of the keel, and ultimately, replacing the ballast.

You can try what the yard suggests, it will be a temporary fix, and maybe see you through till your next boat.

It looks in the picture like rust has developed in there, not due to a keel bolt leak, but coming in from the drain pipe. If that is your fridge drain, meat juice is high sodium, and it could be salty enough to make that stain. I'd be very tempted to use oxalic acid and clean it up carefully, so you can get a better look. If it's not coming up from the keel, the yard fix will surely work okay.

Boats with stub keels and external lead ballast avoid the expanding iron keel problem, but may have "smile" problems, where the gap opens and salt water enters the sump where the stub keel is.

Good luck with it.

Ann

[Gripfast]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It looks in the picture like rust has developed in there, not due to a keel bolt leak, but coming in from the drain pipe. If that is your fridge drain, meat juice is high sodium, and it could be salty enough to make that stain. I'd be very tempted to use oxalic acid and clean it up carefully, so you can get a better look. If it's not coming up from the keel, the yard fix will surely work okay.

Ann

Sorry the picture is a little misleading. That hose on the side is part of a hand pump assembly I use to chase water out of the seperate sections of the bilge. its a flat bilge and the ac condensate that builds up before it is pumped out.

When the bilge is dry, I can see water seeping up around the bolt head on that first bolt, (where the rust stain is), and a little around the second one. I am pretty sure that water is carrying little bits of rust out and staining the area around the bolt.

Also, my long winded description must have gotten twisted. The Yard wants to completely remove the keel to repair, I had suggested the other method. The Yard was not interested in that.

Wondering if anyoine had suscess in fixing this sort of thing without completely removing the keel?

I might add that all the other bolts are clean.

[s/v Moondancer]

My sailing club ignored the problem of keel bolts rusting like that…that was until they lifted the boat to paint the bottom and the keel fell off!

Let the yard do a professional repair job.

https://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/...the-maib-63786

[Gripfast]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

My sailing club ignored the problem of keel bolts rusting like that…that was until they lifted the boat to paint the bottom and the keel fell off!

Let the yard do a professional repair job.

https://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/...the-maib-63786

Thats the way I am leaning now.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Gripfast

…
Seems that I could remove each bolt, inspect and replace if damaged,
…

These are stainless bolts threaded into tapped holes in an iron keel, correct? The bolts are one thing, but the tapped iron threads they are screwing into are another. From your description, it sounds like the threads could be marinating in salt water.

You need to drop the keel and figure out exactly what’s going on. Maybe you can save money by having the yard drop it, but you the actual inspection/repair.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by wyb2

These are stainless bolts threaded into tapped holes in an iron keel, correct? The bolts are one thing, but the tapped iron threads they are screwing into are another.

You raise a good point, poor practice.
With keel removed the threaded holes may want a tap run in them to get clean threads back.
Studs would be better, but for best practice they would not want threads in the section that runs thru the structure, (ie, not just simple lengths of "all thread").
Be thankful that you don't have "cast in place" studs.

[BenBowSirocco]

It seems to me there have been multiple examples of keels coming off in the last 5 to 10 years that have had deadly consequences since it will most likely happen while sailing.



Obviously an unplanned $5k is no small matter, but I would seriously consider the consequences to yourself, friends or loved ones if you choose to postpone the repair of a known problem.



Dropping the keel off the boat and properly repairing the bolts, the joint, and then re-attaching it is an opportunity to gain some serious confidence in your boat.

Try to see this as an opportunity to give yourself that confidence that the boat is very sound and solid and ready for the next adventure.

Even though, we all know it hurts to spend the money.


It may add expense to go this route, but I may also suggest you hire a knowledgeable/experienced marine surveyor or a local Naval Architect to handle the initial inspection after dropping the keel and specify the proper repair.

This may seem a bit over the top- but these men have the knowledge to truly understand the forces involved and can perhaps suggest repair techniques to give you a better product when your finished- not just the same product back working again.



On my old C&C 27 (notorious for "keel smile" cracking) I spoke with a NA online and he suggested a very specific epoxy resin formula that has a high elasticity as well as a specific overlapping fiber orientation for the repair of my keel smile cracking that worked perfectly for me for well over 6,000nm of offshore sailing and inshore racing- as well as multiple groundings.

This is an illustration of how the right man for job can take a repair like this from "solid" to "exceptionally good".

[Gary Mc]

I had no idea that they drill and tap cast iron keels then bolt them on? Not a big fan.

I am with the others, you need to drop your keel and inspect the bolts holes, maybe even go to a larger size?


Your keel/hull sealant is obviously not doing it's job. I understand that this is a good place for 3M 5200. The yard quote is reasonable for this job, I had it done to my 30 footer.
Good Luck

[bil56]

sure, the best solution is to lower the keel, check, replace the bolts, redo the seal properly.

on a smaller boat (30') I did it alone:
2 jacks under the keel, boat 20cm higher, remove the bolts, and instead mount 2 threaded rods or more to be able to lower the keel quietly, scrape (this is the worst!) and redo the seal, reassemble, rebolt,
and sail!!!