westsail similar

[Argyle38]

Keep an eye out for Down East 32's as well. They are of very similar build quality of the Westsails. The final few factory built Westsails were built in the Down East yard, near Long Beach California.

There are a few areas where the Downeast's weren't built quite as good as the Westsails, but many owners have addressed these issues but the price is still quite a bit lower than a Westsail making the Down East's a pretty good value, IMO.

I've sailed on both. Good solid boats and great if you're not in a hurry. Not hard on the eye either, which also helps get through the maintenance old boats require.

[passage_paul]

I definitely do not have much sailing experience.

I do have a few years however, long-lining black cod on a 61 foot 4 man crew jalopy on the Bering Sea..I Certainly do know very well about being miserable in rough waters working 18 hours a day for weeks on end...of course I was much younger. ***flashbacks to the first 3.5 days of nonstop sea sickness*** one of the worst sicknesses in my life!
I am enrolling in the NorthWest school of Wooden Boat Building the Marine Systems program... So I wont be just taking a few cruises and buying.. I do insist on being an educated sailor as much as possible.
3 years ago I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail... {and finished!). I had spent time breaking in boots..testing all my gear. Of course I had what I had what my budget would allow ..I didn't test numerous tents or bags or boots. I found what worked,, I made due... (something us frugal/povrtyazz folks do) even tho it wasnt the lightest of gear or the very best quality it worked just fine.

Pure comedy (sad) was all of the "dreamers" who came with their lightweight, fancy gear, carbon fiber walking poles..LOL. fresh from the city. and nearly all of them dropped after a few hundred miles. It is a beautiful adventure but dream smacks reality hard for some and shatters in a twinkling of an eye. I think too many of them saw that movie "Wild" with Reese Witherspoon..its a great movie... but overly glamorous
Mama didnt raise no city boy here with fanciful expectations.

Living in a Marina is my ideal because 1) it would be about 2 miles from the classroom. 2) is far cheaper than paying rent, 400 bux instead of 1000. 3)electricty is a flat 25 bux. 4) I can spend all the time I want working on my boat. 5) I learn to endure the cold the cramp, cooking, pumping, etc etc 6) No need to commute )) possibly able to sell car and replace auto coverage for boat coverage. 7) Almost forgot the great opportunity to network with other liveaboards and learn from them as well.

18 years to circumnavigate would be glorious.I certainly do plan to test a few out and go into it fully aware of pros and cons. I really like hearing the issues folks here are presenting! Thanks for taking the time.

[passage_paul]

Thanks Argyle! I did see that about Down East 32/ How it escaped my "shortlist" I am not sure.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ttex

You have good taste. I love the way these boats look and I ended up with a Baba 35.

One thing I will say is that they are not the type of sailboat experienced folks tend to go for. That should tell you something.

I think less experienced people gravitate to them because they seem safe and foolproof. Can't knock the keel off!

In fact I think the Cheeki Rafiki incident is what ultimately scared me into the arms of a full keel. I guess I plan to hit stuff for a while. Hopefully not other boats.

Which arm did the Rebel Heart incident scare you into?

[ttex]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Which arm did the Rebel Heart incident scare you into?

Well I am not sure, Paul. You seem to have some idea. Why don't you tell me? Because I have no idea what you are on about.

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Passage Paul, I don't think you are going to save much money by moving aboard. There are other expenses beside the berthing fee.


My recommendation, (of course to be discarded if you wish) is do some sailing, lots of sailing, before you buy your first boat. After some time on the water you will know a lot more about what you want and what you want to do.

It sounds harsh but I think you have fallen in love with a dream but lack the knowledge of the reality. Many people, no matter how resolute they think they are, abandon their world cruise after the first ocean passage. Get on board as many boats as possible, do deliveries, do races (one year of racing will make a sailor out of you, I guarantee it).

As to your choice of boat, I rather like the Westsail 32. It is pure. But it is slow and it will limit where you can go since going upwind is not it's strong suit and believe me, you will be going upwind. If your boat won't sail you will be motoring. Make sure you have a very good motor.

Don't rush into this, take your time and make informed decisions, based on your own experiences, not what you read or hear from other people.

BTW, we have a very fast boat and took 18 years to circumnavigate.

After all the money I have trashed with my learning curve, I am seeing something the same as what Wingssail says here.

I don't want to sound like I am trying to discourage you. Not at all. Just hope you can avoid the choices I made that didn't work out.

Starting with your budget... I easily blew through that much on a refit and was no where near done. And I am still spending boatbucks. That is never done.

There are boats out there that are sitting, waiting for someone with cash to come along and finish the refit because the owners ran out of money and had to walk away.

You've got a couple of agendas going on, which might be doable. But you could also get dragged down real fast too.

Best crew I ever had was a woman from your neck of the woods. She owned her own very capable boat, but was doing a very smart thing by crewing on other peoples boats for the adventure.

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Which arm did the Rebel Heart incident scare you into?

I looked back through the thread and didn't see any mention of Rebel Heart.

They had a Hans Christian.

[Jim Cate]

I think tht the Rebel Heart allegory was inspired by the poster being frightened away from all fin keel boats by the Cheeki Rafiki incident. In the RH case, a full keel traditionally inspired Hans Christian was abandonded at sea due to many flaws in design and execution and preparation... as well as a very sick baby on board. The inference is that if one serious and well publicized incident with a fin keeler was enough to scare one away from all such boats, then the RH incident should do the same for full keels.

And obviously, neither case should damn all vaguely similar designs.

Did I get that right, Paul?

Jim

[grantmc]

Thoughts on the Boat
I’ve no idea if the boat you’re looking at is priced right, but seems to me very expensive for what you’d be getting. The seller has listed all manner of stuff, much of which is basic to any boat. For example all boats need bottom paint and it only lasts 12-18 months, same with sacrificing zincs. Owner states ‘motor serviced’, well that’s reassuring, but let’s see the maintenance log.

Also cross off anything more than 5 years old, and cross off what are in reality just repaired items and cross off standard wear and tear items like painting, and replacing worn out ropes. For example, and what I mean is that there’s nothing new about a ‘new Morse Throttle 2006’; it’s likely needing replacing again now after 15 years in the weather. And anything electronics after 5 years is either worn out or superseded, so cross them out too. I’d even cross off many of the things that are new, for example ‘new hard dodger’, nope, I’d say the boat has a hard dodger. Same with the coaming additions and cushions; who cares when installed, it's just that now there's something to support your back, and the cockpit seats were really uncomfortable before.

The boat is 42 years old. Perhaps an analogy, if I had a 1978 Nissan Sunny and fitted a new window because the old one was smashed, in reality it matters not, it’s still a 1978 Nissan Sunny, who cares if the window is new?

So now what do you have left? For me you’re left with a lovely looking live aboard, but I don’t see a blue water cruiser.

Also I can’t see much difference between the boat you’re looking at and this very similar Westsail 32: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...il-32-3554612/ for $20K.

You’re planning a circumnavigation, ok so what latitudes will you be sailing? What are the important things to sail? Well the sails of course, but all we know is that they’ve been inspected. So can you see the report? One sail is 2002 and another 2005. Seriously? I would even list them, and if I bought the boat I wouldn't bother keeping them onboard. So what do these sails cost, and obviously you'll need to add that cost to the total price to you. And what other sails do you need for a big ocean trip? Being able to put up to head sails on separate stays I find is really advantageous over a spinnaker, especially in higher winds.

You say heavy weather. So issues that I would consider are sailing comfort and accessibility. For example how will you climb the mast without mast steps? How will you access all parts of that motor and drive system through that tiny hatch? Where are all the hand holds, and lee cloths found, cooking, refrigeration, is there a shower? How would you alter the traveler setting without climbing out of the cockpit? Where’s the wet locker?

She is cutter rigged; so where’s the furler for the stay sail? She has a serious bowsprit that I hope is well supported when taking all the shock loads and under the constant strain of the head sail. I wouldn’t want to climb out there in a storm when the jib furler jams. Owner mentions replacing the bobkin , so why did it fail?

She has a tiny cockpit. Yet that’s where you’ll spend serious amounts of time.
Communication requires either an SSB and/or a Sat phone, neither of which seem to be included. Is the life raft in service and suitable? What is the alternative steering in event of failure, and what autopilots are included? What spares are included, and are parts for the various main components relatively available?

And aren’t you better to go out and spend some serious time sailing? Crew on some long distance trips? Perhaps think carefully about going from never really sailing to embarking on a circumnavigation. That’s a big jump. It strikes me that the cruisers having the most fun don’t have an agenda or programme. They just sail from place to place as weather permits after hearing stories from other cruisers. And when they arrive, if it’s a nice place they often just stay for an extended period knowing that eventually the ocean will call then on to somewhere new.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I think tht the Rebel Heart allegory was inspired by the poster being frightened away from all fin keel boats by the Cheeki Rafiki incident. In the RH case, a full keel traditionally inspired Hans Christian was abandonded at sea due to many flaws in design and execution and preparation... as well as a very sick baby on board. The inference is that if one serious and well publicized incident with a fin keeler was enough to scare one away from all such boats, then the RH incident should do the same for full keels.

And obviously, neither case should damn all vaguely similar designs.

Did I get that right, Paul?

Jim

Exactly. It makes no sense to damn fin keel boats because a poorly executed repair after a grounding caused a keel loss in the N Atlantic, when there are many full keel ( ok, cut away keel) boats from the design and build era of the Westsail that have been lost.
Not all classic designs make good, offshore cruisers today; just like not all modern designs are death traps in waiting.
They are both silly arguments and in my thoughts not helpful to rookie trying to figure what first cruising boat to get.

[ttex]

Well if Jim is against me I surrender.

I thought I made it obvious my opinion was uninformed and from a position of fear. Geez.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ttex

Well if Jim is against me I surrender.

I thought I made it obvious my opinion was uninformed and from a position of fear. Geez.

Pretty sure no ones against you here . Hopefully you can see that the anti-keel logic you presented is no more reasonable than the anti-classic boat argument that I presented.
Both styles of boat have their advantages. I cruised and owned a classic for 15 years, an Alberg 35. Then drifted into owning and cruising modern design boats. I have around 40,000 miles of cruising preformance designs with a Mom and Pop crew. I'd never go back and would be happy to argue the enhanced saftey of performance boats for small crews over a couple of beers with you.

[ttex]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Pretty sure no ones against you here . Hopefully you can see that the anti-keel logic you presented is no more reasonable than the anti-classic boat argument that I presented.
Both styles of boat have their advantages. I cruised and owned a classic for 15 years, an Alberg 35. Then drifted into owning and cruising modern design boats. I have around 40,000 miles of cruising preformance designs with a Mom and Pop crew. I'd never go back and would be happy to argue the enhanced saftey of performance boats for small crews over a couple of beers with you.

It wouldn't even be an argument! I'm just here to learn. I can drink a few beers too.

[passage_paul]

Thanks for the input there Grant!

I didn't itemize every detail of gear needs..I figured most of the concerns are "givens" and didn't need to be spelled out. Of course accessibility to the mast is an OBVIOUS...as are engine condition and access... refrigeration..shower, lee clothes .. the small cockpit is not necessarily a bad thing... at most I will have myself and one other aboard... I wont be serving tea and crumpets to Mr and Mrs Howell.

I hiked the the PCT SOBO in 2016 and completed.... showers were a rare luxury... and am not worried in the least about having a spacious head..LOL damn savages...

I also think it goes with out saying that any circumnavigation is entirely based on weather...I can't imagine any sailor is putting out specific dates as when to be to point A. B or c..
I did say leisurely circumnavigation. My reference to heavy weather should not be taken as a desire to cruise rough waters in the slightest. Indeed my point was that I would prefer to be able to ride out bad weather in relative "comfort" instead of being in a much lighter boat hoping to outrun a storm. That whole... "prepare for the worst" kinda thing??

I also think that it goes without saying that cost of boat+refit must be with in my budget. Only a fool would would buy a fixer upper and then blow the bank on refit to the point of not being viable... isn't that finance 101? A 10k boat that needs 50k in repairs and will never recover that in a later sale makes zero sense.

I likely will purchase something that is in fair/good condition needing only modest work. I am not looking for a 3-5 year project boat... but I would like to have the knowledge of worksmanship on ALL of the major systems and ensure that I am competent enough to repair issues as they arise. I don't have a desire to have everything done for me and I just jump in and go...LOLOLOL

Most things in life don't need to be spelled out because they are soo obvious and I won't be doing a refit in a bubble... I intend to take full advantage of the sailing expertise that the coastal region of the PACNW has to offer..thats the whole point.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by passage_paul

....... My reference to heavy weather should not be taken as a desire to cruise rough waters in the slightest. Indeed my point was that I would prefer to be able to ride out bad weather in relative "comfort" instead of being in a much lighter boat hoping to outrun a storm. That whole... "prepare for the worst" kinda thing??

.....

In my mind this is a bit of a false choice. Boats that are capable of making significant distance to outrun weather are easily doing 200-250 miles a day, often under motor. These are large cruising boats in 60ft plus range. So they aren't an either or when looking for a 30-40 ft cruising boat.
Having decent performance is just as much a saftey issue as having a boat that is strong and precieved to be bullet proof. Number one in cruising navigation is to avoid bad weather. This means different things in different parts of the world. On any passage you will have much better luck avoiding bad weather if the passage takes 7 days instead of 10 days. This has to do with both the amount of exposure time and the fact that the unknown weather tends to start 4 or 5 days into the forecast.
So even when looking at a smaller cruising boat, it still makes a lot of sense to include high up in your criteria decent performance.