westsail similar

[Linesledaft]

If you could find a Dreadnaught 32 that was well sorted, it might be a good boat for you. They are very much like the Westsail 32. Most were owner finished, so quality will vary.

[Cheechako]

Mariah 31 by early Pacific Seacraft is a heavy stout WS type I suppose.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mariah-31
Good luck!
BTW: 2 year is not a leisure circumnavigation. 3+ yr is probably an average one.
The nice thing about the WS32 or the Mariah is the minimal teak compared with some.

[passage_paul]

Thanks Lines.

I do like the dreadnaught.. and from what I read they seem to be right my way.... not sure about the ketch setup... I don't know all the details about ketch and just starting to learn abit about them over cutter....

I have heard alot of dif things regarding owner finished vessels.
A reviews site I was reading last nite said... "watch for owner finished".... WTF... could that statement be anymore vague???!! Is that a negative statement or positive.

I have heard many people praise owner finished over factory... and then others warn about owner finished.

I understand that some owner models come in a various levels of craftsmanship... but does that also mean a factory model is superior by default??...

I honestly don't understand why making the comparison is needed.. either the boat is in good condi or it isn't...regardless of factory or owner finished.. right???

[Cheechako]

Many owner finished are well done. The biggest issue I see is sometimes people try oddball materials and it ends up not being too great. Like something from Home Depot on the overhead etc. But occasionally you see a real poorly done boat, often those are a never completed mess though.

I think it's hard to go wrong with a Westsail as the values are pretty low in today's world on some. There are a few out there with way under powered engines. Watch out for that. Back then many thought of an engine as just something to get you out of the marina. The WS is a heavy, beamy boat, and needs some torque to drive it through head seas.
Someone mentioned a Willard, they are stout and not many around, but could be a bargain if you find one maybe?

I have buddy boated with 3 different Westsails over the years, from '83 to 2000. They all loved their boats.

[passage_paul]

Thanks Cheechako Ya I have been seeing that I need to increase my idea of what it takes to RTW... which is great... I had based that on others experiences.. and it is clear those accounts were not stopping alot and just focused on going round...I plan to make many stops.. so as others here said they took 18 years... and that sounds great! I dug in a bit and I could easily spend several years (happily) just in the pacific rim. However long or whatever path is fine with me.. I understand that not one thing is assured while sailing... just be flexible...thats the best part for me..

[Linesledaft]

Originally Posted by passage_paul

Thanks Lines.

I do like the dreadnaught.. and from what I read they seem to be right my way.... not sure about the ketch setup... I don't know all the details about ketch and just starting to learn abit about them over cutter....

I have heard alot of dif things regarding owner finished vessels.
A reviews site I was reading last nite said... "watch for owner finished".... WTF... could that statement be anymore vague???!! Is that a negative statement or positive.

I have heard many people praise owner finished over factory... and then others warn about owner finished.

I understand that some owner models may are a variety level of craftsmanship... but does that also mean a factory model is superior by default??...

I honestly don't understand why making the comparison is needed.. either the boat is in good condi or it isn't...regardless of factory or owner finished.. right???

Exactly. It all depends on how much experience/money the owner dropped into the boat.

I have seen owner finished boats with 2x4 bowsprits, and horrible cheap homedepot interiors.

It all depends. Some are definitely much better, but I would think those are few and far between based on boats I have seen.

There might still be a cheap Dreadnaught 32 being stored in Pasadena Tx. If I can find the location I will post it. The previous owner “refitted” it and absolutely everything he did would need to be corrected, but you might even be able to get it for free at this point. Then just dump 20k into it!

-Heath

[Argyle38]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I think tht the Rebel Heart allegory was inspired by the poster being frightened away from all fin keel boats by the Cheeki Rafiki incident. In the RH case, a full keel traditionally inspired Hans Christian was abandonded at sea due to many flaws in design and execution and preparation... as well as a very sick baby on board. The inference is that if one serious and well publicized incident with a fin keeler was enough to scare one away from all such boats, then the RH incident should do the same for full keels.

And obviously, neither case should damn all vaguely similar designs.

Did I get that right, Paul?

Jim

My recollection is that Rebel Heart was lost because of the sick baby, which was bad planning. I don't remember Rebel Heart failing because of any design failures. If the baby had not been sick (and even sick before they left, which was very poor planning) would it not have been likely that RH makes it to their destination?

Not to say of course that full keelers don't get lost, of course they do, I just don't necessarily think that Rebel Heart is a good example. Cheeki Rafiki was lost due to poor repairs. Those repairs were due to a hard grounding (if I recall correctly). A full keeled boat experiencing a similar hard grounding would likely be a rather simple glasswork repair and would not require the same level of expertise for the vessel to be sea worthy. I would definitely be more concerned with a fin keel boat that has experienced a hard grounding. I would want to know a lot about who did the repair, and what their qualifications were.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this thread in to a fin vs. full keel kind of debate, but Jim and Paul's statements about RH seemed a bit off to me, and no one else seemed to address them. Of course, I could be wrong about RH, but it seemed to me they were just uncomfortable and sad, but to me it seemed like that was mostly due to bad luck weather wise. The sick baby was the trump card.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Argyle38

My recollection is that Rebel Heart was lost because of the sick baby, which was bad planning. I don't remember Rebel Heart failing because of any design failures. If the baby had not been sick (and even sick before they left, which was very poor planning) would it not have been likely that RH makes it to their destination?

Not to say of course that full keelers don't get lost, of course they do, I just don't necessarily think that Rebel Heart is a good example. Cheeki Rafiki was lost due to poor repairs. Those repairs were due to a hard grounding (if I recall correctly). A full keeled boat experiencing a similar hard grounding would likely be a rather simple glasswork repair and would not require the same level of expertise for the vessel to be sea worthy. I would definitely be more concerned with a fin keel boat that has experienced a hard grounding. I would want to know a lot about who did the repair, and what their qualifications were.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this thread in to a fin vs. full keel kind of debate, but Jim and Paul's statements about RH seemed a bit off to me, and no one else seemed to address them. Of course, I could be wrong about RH, but it seemed to me they were just uncomfortable and sad, but to me it seemed like that was mostly due to bad luck weather wise. The sick baby was the trump card.

So are you agreeing with the logic presented that because Cheeki Rafiki was lost you should never cruise on a fin keel boat? That is what was being challenged by the snide Rebel Heart comment retort. It is nonsense to rule out fin or full keels based on a single incident. It is nonsense to rule out boat
designs that have 10,000s of them successfully cruising. Falling in love with nostalgic designs might give a beginner a sense of security, but it is a false one. There is far more to saftey offshore than nostalgia.

[Argyle38]

Originally Posted by Paul L

So are you agreeing with the logic presented that because Cheeki Rafiki was lost you should never cruise on a fin keel boat?

Not at all, and my response was more to Jim's comment which gave more detail about what may have been meant re: Rebel Heart. I was perfectly willing to ignore the snarky comment like most people did until Jim offered further explanation.

I just think Rebel Heart is a bad example. They failed to complete their journey because a baby got sick. That has nothing to do with the shape of the boat.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Argyle38

Not at all, and my response was more to Jim's comment which gave more detail about what may have been meant re: Rebel Heart. I was perfectly willing to ignore the snarky comment like most people did until Jim offered further explanation.

I just think Rebel Heart is a bad example. They failed to complete their journey because a baby got sick. That has nothing to do with the shape of the boat.

There is far more to the loss off Rebel Heart than just a sick baby. Just like there was far more to the loss off Cheeki Rafiki than the keel fell off.
No one argued that you should stay away from classic designs because of the loss of Rebel Heart. A poster did argue that you should stay away from fin keels because of Chiki Rafiki.

[ttex]

Originally Posted by Paul L

A poster did argue that you should stay away from fin keels because of Chiki Rafiki.

Who argued what now?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ttex

Who argued what now?

Call it argued, implied, or whatever. The comment was in response to your statement

In fact I think the Cheeki Rafiki incident is what ultimately scared me into the arms of a full keel. I guess I plan to hit stuff for a while. Hopefully not other boats.

It is an odd, backhanded condemenation of fin keels, which I'm perfectly fine with as your personal choice. I was just commenting on it so others who might be less experienced won't pick this up as gospel or generally accepted..

[LarryDW]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Mariah 31 by early Pacific Seacraft is a heavy stout WS type I suppose.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mariah-31
Good luck!
BTW: 2 year is not a leisure circumnavigation. 3+ yr is probably an average one.
The nice thing about the WS32 or the Mariah is the minimal teak compared with some.

I was much like you two years ago, W32 was on my list along with CE Ryder’s, Allied’s, and a few others. I was lucky to find a Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31, definitely no regrets, she is robust, and very well constructed. By no means fast, a bit tender, but she’s definitely a seaworthy boat. She points remarkably well flying the staysail. I’ve singlehanded her from Maine to the Bahamas, and back to Annapolis. I’ve heard the WS 32 gets a bad rap for being slow, I believe (no direct experience) mostly because of bad sail trim. Most Mariah’s are factory finished, only 89 built so they can be hard to find. Good luck in your search!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by LarryDW

I was much like you two years ago, W32 was on my list along with CE Ryder’s, Allied’s, and a few others. I was lucky to find a Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31, definitely no regrets, she is robust, and very well constructed. By no means fast, a bit tender, but she’s definitely a seaworthy boat. She points remarkably well flying the staysail. I’ve singlehanded her from Maine to the Bahamas, and back to Annapolis. I’ve heard the WS 32 gets a bad rap for being slow, I believe (no direct experience) mostly because of bad sail trim. Most Mariah’s are factory finished, only 89 built so they can be hard to find. Good luck in your search!

Yeah the Mariah was on my drool list 40 years ago. One of the WS I buddy boated with went on to win the Trans Pac later on. (in there class that is!) They have a long waterline and can move with enough sail up on a reach or downwind. Those heavy boats dont go to weather well though, and that's probably their "bad rap". Heck my Hans Christian 38 was a real dog to weather.

[Dennisvj]

Greetings,
I just sailed from Australia to South Africa on a friend's boat, helping him along on his circumnavigation, and I have to say, 2 years is definitely NOT a leisurely circumnavigation. He is on year 9 right now. Certainly it can be done in less than 10 years, but two is quite a rush. It took me and my wife 5 years to get to French Polynesia from Maine, then up to your neck of the woods, via Hawaii, wrapping things up by coming down the Inside Passage to Seattle, where we sold our trusty Shearwater 39.



Anyway, while in Richards Bay, South Africa, I met a California man on a Westsail32, wrapping up his circumnavigation ... much of it single handing. He LOVES his boat, and I must say, it is a thing of beauty! So, while I can't officially recommend this boat over others on your list, based on his experience, I don't think you would regret getting the Westsail32.



Good luck! And fair winds.