What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

[Mike OReilly]

I too am always amused when people dismiss the notion of a "bluewater" boat. I agree, some of this is marketing hype. But the notion that different boats are designed to do different things, seems obvious.

The demands and requirements of long-distance, self-sufficient, big water cruising, is clearly different from hopping along a populated coast or sea, in temperate climates during temperate seasons. There's also a difference between boats designed for high latitudes, vs more trade-wind bluewater boats vs a boat designed to rarely leave the dock. I don't know why this obvious statement raises so many hackles.

Different boats are designed to do different things, and are aimed at different markets. That's not to say a coastal boat can't cross oceans, or that a bluewater boats can't run the ICW ... of course they can, and they do it all the time. But that doesn't mean they are optimal for these off-label uses (to borrow a pharmaceutical term).

I do think crew competence is a huge factor. Part of that competence is knowing what your vessel is designed to do. But a good crew can manage with a suboptimal vessel, and come through unscathed. And conversely, a bad crew can sail a perfectly-designed vessel to a sorry end.

What factors are 'more' important will be dependent on situation and crew competence. Generalizations can only be that. But clearly, there are differences in design between different intended uses.

[donradcliffe]

Forget all that heavy layup stuff, you must have a steel boat to go offshore. It will eat Orcas and reefs for breakfast!

[Superjunkman]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Forget all that heavy layup stuff, you must have a steel boat to go offshore. It will eat Orcas and reefs for breakfast!

Hard to argue with that.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Superjunkman

I’ve seen logs, containers, flotsam, etc in the middle of emery ocean. You sure about that? The integrity of your hull is most definitely a middle of the ocean issue.

Design issue merely, not material. That aside you aren't claiming coastal boats are or can be paper? They must be as strong as any boat and of course you can see anything but in middle of an ocean it's rare.

[Don C L]

Yeah seems like there is a lot more stuff to hit near a coast... including the coast!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I too am always amused when people dismiss the notion of a "bluewater" boat. I agree, some of this is marketing hype. But the notion that different boats are designed to do different things, seems obvious.

Begs the question what is blue water? The nice pretty stuff that's blue has nearby sandy beaches were the sun always shines. What about a grey narly Atlantic Ocean, or murky brown water near land?

Someone mentioned steel boats. Yup, they are made in the thousands each year because the demand is so high. How about aluminium for high latitude? Didn't an Ovni sink in quick time a couple of years ago in the Beloit Strait? so the owner bought another identical one and went back again. Then there is Teleport a wooden boat that someone skinned in GRP to stop the leaks. A very good watch on YT.

Perhaps instead buy a yacht that suits your needs. Single grumpy old man = MAB (manky auld boat). Tradition lover = wooden sloop, lots of varnish. Family with dozens of kids = lots of cabins and deck area. Retired couple looking for quality and ease of use = HR. Costal creek crawler with low maintenance = GRP with bilge or lift keels.

[boatman61]

Production boats are designed for light wind/light seas cruising while blue water boats are designed for rougher seas, bigger air and longer trips. A blue water boat has larger tanks and a heavier displacement. Production boats have a lighter displacement and are designed for coastal and bay cruising.
Blue-water cruisers have a hull shape that is designed for pushing water along the hull rather than bobbing on top of it like a Bendi Toy.
A bluewater sailboat is designed to tackle long open sea cruising, such as an ocean crossing. The vessel is solidly-built and seaworthy, which means it can withstand any weather conditions. A bluewater cruiser is self-sufficient, so you can sail offshore for an extended period of time.

And then there's the Blue Water Boat...

[Mike OReilly]

What Boatie says... And I'm sure there are lots of other distinctions one could make. Point is, different types of boats are designed to do different things. I don't see why this is either complicated, or somehow controversial to say.

There is no official definition of "bluewater," nor is there one for "coastal," or "high latitudes," or "Great Laker," or even "dock queen." But these are all different types of boats that have been designed and built to do different things.

The needs and demands of a boat that is intended to travel far and long, operating independently, facing constant force loadings over long periods, is clearly different from a boat designed to hop down a protected waterway, and operate independently for short periods. Most well-designed/well-built boats can do both; perhaps not optimally, but they can do it given the right conditions and right crews. But that doesn't alter their intended use, as expressed through their design and build.

This doesn't make one boat better in an absolute sense. It just makes one boat better for their intended use, vs one that is not.

[Superjunkman]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Design issue merely, not material. That aside you aren't claiming coastal boats are or can be paper? They must be as strong as any boat and of course you can see anything but in middle of an ocean it's rare.

Not at all rare. I’ve crossed every ocean and major sea at this point. There’s plenty of floating stuff that will put a whole in your boat in the middle of all of them. While there’s more stuff near coastal there’s also lots of convenient methods of rescue there as well. If you’re going to cross oceans hull integrity becomes way more important. Im not sure what would motivate anyone to state otherwise. If you’ve just decided not to worry about it that’s fine. Most people wouldn’t want ti spends a few weeks in a life raft or worse if they could simply make a better choice up front.

[Thomas1985]

Any piece of marine plywood I am brave enough to jump on and float across the ocean

[wholybee]

Almost any production boat is strong enough to be a blue water boat. What makes a boat blue water is how it is fitted out. Tankage, handholds, storage, sail inventory, electronics, power generation, etc. All of these things can be done post-sale by an owner.

So, for example, take 2 Beneteau Oceanis 46s (or any modern production boat) Both could have been identical leaving the factory, but one might have been fit by the owner as a blue water boat, and one might have been fit as a coastal.

All the talk about displacement, hull shape, strength of build etc., while there are some exceptions with boats that are really not ok to cross an ocean with, mostly that is just personal preference.

[Wandering1]

2. Older hand layed thick fiberglass hulls vs. newer cored hulls and the strength thereof . The proliferation of lightweight cored hulls has zero to do with progression and building a stronger hull and everything to do with a less expensive way to build a hull. By the pound resin and woven roving cost way more than Divinycell or whatever other core material you can name. That’s a fact. Further vacuum infusion saves tons of labor and time and add to that a cored hull you end up with a light, stiff, easy to damage, hard/expensive to repair hull. There are many aspects of strength. Putting a hole in your boat gets a lot easier. That’s a fact. There are many other factors to consider in discussing the seaworthiness of a boat

A cored hull using the same thickness of glass as a solid glass hull will be 37 times stiffer.
The cost of labour to build a cored hull is way higher than a solid glass hull. The skills to do it correctly are far higher than just laying up layer after layer of glass. In the scale of boat building, the cost of glass and resin doesn't factor. It's a tiny percentage of the whole project cost. You have little understanding of boat building. If you want cheap you make it out of solid glass. That what all the crappy European production boats are built from. Cheap solid glass

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Superjunkman

Not at all rare. I’ve crossed every ocean and major sea at this point. There’s plenty of floating stuff that will put a whole in your boat in the middle of all of them. While there’s more stuff near coastal there’s also lots of convenient methods of rescue there as well. If you’re going to cross oceans hull integrity becomes way more important. Im not sure what would motivate anyone to state otherwise. If you’ve just decided not to worry about it that’s fine. Most people wouldn’t want ti spends a few weeks in a life raft or worse if they could simply make a better choice up front.

I've not "decided" anything. Just wondering why you think there would be MORE hazards floating in the middle of an ocean than costal while it's the opposite. Besides that, I have no desire to sail throw Sargasso sea or the great Pacific garbage patch which are obvious and easy areas to avoid while only an idiot or scientist would.

[MicHughV]

Well, one has to consider that the Atlantic has been crossed by all manner of craft, from small to big, made from every conceivable material.
Many crossings by Wharram Cats, boats constructed from plywood in someone's back yard.
These days they have rowboats that cross the Atlantic ocean..in a race no less.

Likewise the Pacific has been crossed by rafts.

I've come across all sorts of craft in my travels. Big, small, simple, elaborate, and everything in between.

Is there a " perfect" material ??......maybe, but that is not to say " imperfect" materials can't do the job as well.

[Don C L]

Hmmm... ok what if we measure bluewater-boatedness by a set of basic criteria?
1. able to roll without losing the mast?
2. able to hit a floating container at hull speed without springing a leak?
3. able to rack up 150 mile (or more) days pretty regularly?
4. able to hold enough food and water for all onboard for 2 months?
5. able to hold enough fuel to motor for 300 miles?
6. able to take a big green wave over the bow and not leak a drop on your bunk?

too extreme? not extreme enough? Did I miss some?

...but even then, there are boats cruising blue water that won't meet these criteria...

it boils down to your tolerance for imperfection, or for lack of total security, no?

Thor Heyerdahl had a pretty high tolerance for that! But in his case he had confidence he could deal with, or fix, any problem that came up and survive. So then, it is not so much the boat, is it?