What is accurate regarding cost?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

It's an annoying equation, this! 50 + 30 = 40

That math may be right for some boats. You buy it for 50, spend 30 on it, and 2 years later sell it for 40

[john61ct]

If you're lucky, can take another two years to sell it even at what **you** think is a bargain price.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

This self described “greenhorn” apparently has little experience with boats. Better to get some real life experience first at $200-$300 (or as much as $500 for a 42’ in season) a day before making a significant capital investment. And the cost goes down when the costs are split among friends/club members. Not so in your own boat.

Owning a boat is great for all kinds of emotionally gratifying reasons. Financially, it makes little practical sense for most boat owners (live aboards and full time cruisers excluded).

I think maybe owning (a small) boat is great also for getting that real life experience since there is so much more to that than to chartering. That's how I started, anyway

What I really wanted to ask: is it normally easy for inexperienced sailors to be able to charter boats over there?

[john61ct]

many outfits all you need is a credit card

but just because you can doesn't mean you should

usually pretty easy to find more-experienced boatless sailors hanging around happy to come along

of course far cry from a proper teacher, but even that doesn't have to cost the world

[NormanMartin]

I am going to make a shameless pitch... go to sailing school and take various live aboard cruising courses. Try a couple of schools since instructors have useful advice and each region has its peculiarities.

My background is New England and BVI-Antigua regions of Caribbean.

I won't say for whom I work... I am not that shameless... but I bet I've had a hundred people/couples who really got a lot out of the experience. Including, but not limited to: "Are you nuts? I'm not living on one of these things." (Not just ladies, either.)

[NormanMartin]

Regarding the opening question:

Mono hulls are pretty cheap to buy. If you haven't been to yachtworld you're missing the fun. What does a refit cost? It has less to do with the opening cost than you might first think. Simple boat with simple systems? Cheap.

For example: My wife and I have a boat that is not for cruising. Our boat for cruising is going to be under 40 feet, have headroom, a really good galley, a double bed for at anchor and two sea berths for passages, lots of storage because we don't like to carry things on deck, and it will be drop dead stunning to look at. It won't cost 50 grand.

Then... new sails, 15K, new running rigging, 5K, new standing rigging, 7K, scrap old electronics and repair holes, 2K, buy new nav/elec stuff, 2K, good dinghy and motor, 5K, New canvass, 3K. I'm painting with a broad brush.

Life costs afloat pretty much what it costs ashore.

Have fun. See you out there.

Norm

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

Regarding the opening question:

Mono hulls are pretty cheap to buy. If you haven't been to yachtworld you're missing the fun. What does a refit cost? It has less to do with the opening cost than you might first think. Simple boat with simple systems? Cheap.

For example: My wife and I have a boat that is not for cruising. Our boat for cruising is going to be under 40 feet, have headroom, a really good galley, a double bed for at anchor and two sea berths for passages, lots of storage because we don't like to carry things on deck, and it will be drop dead stunning to look at. It won't cost 50 grand.

Then... new sails, 15K, new running rigging, 5K, new standing rigging, 7K, scrap old electronics and repair holes, 2K, buy new nav/elec stuff, 2K, good dinghy and motor, 5K, New canvass, 3K. I'm painting with a broad brush.

Life costs afloat pretty much what it costs ashore.

Have fun. See you out there.

Norm

It can still be done at a much lower cost though. First of all, why buy new electronics?

You simply do not need to. I'm still using the late 80's early 90's electronics that came with my boat.

A friend of mine that sails the same waters I do was amazed that I use charts instead of a chart plotter. I was amazed he used a chart plotter

Does the standing rigging really need to be replaced? I'm still using what came on the boat I bought 7 years ago. Highest winds sailed in were around 31 mph or so. Anchored in winds near 45 knots


Running rigging? I'm using the PO's Jib and Main halyards that stayed rigged on the boat for five years while it was on the hard unattended after his two year cruise

You can use a kayak that needs no motor. (instead of purchasing a dinghy and an outboard) They can be had for $300-$500.

[mvAlegria]

I might use the following rule of thumb
A boat between 2 & 6 years old is at its «*lowest*»Maintenance cost,
over 6 things start to need replacement parts & in depth maintenance depending on how much you use it and engine hours.
Above 10 years it’s a gamble worth while if your mechanic skills are good or you wallet is thick.

Do not count on the inspection too much, they can’t find everything..they spend as much time on gathering information such as serial numbers etc as on actual testing. Years ago they would do a compression test on the engines, now they don’t unless something is really obvious. A big part of the survey is to help you get insurance, which is good but not that helpful for Maintnce evaluation.
Insist that the previous owner have and give you copy of his Maintenance log. You can judge the quality of the owners maintenance by the quality or absence of a log. Most owners do not have one.
Hope this helps

[lornolsen]

I owned a 60' Nautical named Camelot from Detroit for 3 years. I keep it in Oriental, NC and on Mobjack Bay in the Chesapeake. I am from Detroit but stayed on the boat an average of 1 week per month. I did all of the maintenance that I had time for and hired out the rest. For the three years that I owned the boat, I averaged spending $3,000 / month. My slip rental was not extravagant. I paid about $300 per month.

I also had a 2 passenger Lancair airplane that flew me back and forth at 207 mph. The Lancair cost $1,000 / month.

When I say cost, I mean everything. I keep very good books. As I was running out of money, I ended up selling Camelot.

[NormanMartin]

In response:
Agree... Our electronics package is a depth meter, a couple of handheld GPS units, a wind speed indicator and an auto pilot. The wind indicator is useless but my wife likes it.

After a lot of miles, I think that the standing and running rigging are cheap to replace and expensive to suffer a failure with so replace... Just my take on it all.

We took the engine out of our Aphrodite 101 recently to have it rebuilt. Cheap. 1982 engine now runs like new for a couple grand. I reckon I will be dead when it needs its next rebuild.

You notice no one ever talks about the fun we have sailing? The pleasure I get from my boat so trumps the costs I can't even equate them. It is really about our use not our maintenance. Maintenance makes use possible.

I love to sail my boat and I take care of her so I can sail her.

[lornolsen]

Camelot was sold in 2012. This year 2018, I just bought a 36' Solaris catamaran named Sunrise in Kemah, Tx. I sailed it to New Bern, NC where it waits its' possible trip to Detroit.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by mvAlegria

Insist that the previous owner have and give you copy of his Maintenance log. You can judge the quality of the owners maintenance by the quality or absence of a log. Most owners do not have one.

You don't happen to have some examples to share, btw, of great log keeping? What's included, how detailed? Or if there is inadequate log keeping, what is usually missing that would be very valuable to the buyer?

[chuckr]

What are you going to do with the boat? I know sail around the world!


Now get serious - We took our first sailing lesson in Dec 2000 because we had nothing to do that weekend. Neither of us had ever been on a sailboat before. Loved it and then took a couple of more in March 2001 and had the boat for 4 more days. Chartered a couple of times then in 2003 bought our first and only boat a brand new Jeanneau DS40 and had a few bells and whistles put on her as we could include it in the financing. I was working for became a 2nd house for income tax.


We sailed her a bit but did almost no upgrades until I retired in 2007. Added a couple of things and headed to the Bahamas as our goal was to sail the Bahamas in the winter and EC USA in the summer and nothing more. Well a couple of times at that and we knew what the boat needed to go a bit father and added a few more things. Then to Western Carib and a few more things. Then the Eastern Carib and a couple of more things. A 2 handed Atlantic crossing in 2013, the Med, the Black Sea in 2016 and now in Israel and we just added a few more things.


SO for the past 15 years we have been adding and changing things - as for our cost of doing that we put out our cost data each year -- http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-197309.html


it is never ending if you do it right. We have friends in the South Pacific after sailing across the Pacific and are now in the midst of more upgrades and changes. You never do it just once - there is maintenance and then there are additions and upgrades.

[johnmort]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Yes, sure, this is a good adaptation strategy. Still, at the same time, there might exist the possibility of some structural changes that could improve the overall equation?

Don't know

remember when owning a sail boat it is the most expensive way to get some where for free. they say the wind is free but catching it costs a fortune. lastly when looking at the financial side of owning a boat remember the dividends are in the memories. lots of good advise from previous comments

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by johnmort

remember when owning a sail boat it is the most expensive way to get some where for free. they say the wind is free but catching it costs a fortune. lastly when looking at the financial side of owning a boat remember the dividends are in the memories. lots of good advise from previous comments

Costs a fortune?

You can buy a decent sailboat for anywhere from $4,000 - $20,000 and sail all you want. Many times you won't need to do anything to the boat for the first year or maybe two

Pay cash for the boat then it's just your slip fee and maybe $10.00/month for $500,000 liability insurance