What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

[MarkJ]

Yes, that's the point I was making... Some think a, say, 24 foot boat is "Bluewater" but don't think a 50 foot ocean rated production boat is....

[Lagoon4us]

Types of boats, designs etc are a personal choice, essentially the following points are all that matters.

1. SKIPPER/CREW.

2. PREPARATION/PLANNING.

3. SEAWORTHINESS.

These things make a boat capable for Blue and Brown water alike.

Cheers

[K_V_B]

I've just reread an interview with Pleun van der Lugt. He's de first Dutchman to sail solo around the world, setting a new record while doing so in 1981. He did it in a Benford 35, a double ender build in ferrocement.
Asked if he would choose the same boat now, his answer was, "no way". He now sails multihulls...
He chose this boat at that time, because he didn't know a lot about boats and sailing, and in his ignorance just though that "heavy and strong" was the most important feature...

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by sneuman

In this month's Good Old Boat, marine surveyor and cruiser (150k miles in all types of rigs) says exactly the same thing I have frequently argued:

"In ideal conditions, a modern lightweight hull form is potentially much faster than a traditional heavy hull, but in a real seaway all bets are off. In many cases, the traditional heavy boat designed and developed to sail in real ocean conditions is superior to and safer than a modern design and more likely to deliver its crew comfortably to the next port."

Interesting the difference which side of the pond one is on makes...

Ask an experienced French sailor what is the ideal blue water boat, and he might say "a medium displacement aluminium centre boarder".

The typical example here is the OVNI, and no one this side of the pond would call taking a family around the world in one irresponsible.

Think. If you buy a car to move your family around in, do you buy a time tested traditional design like a Ford T?

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

I've just reread an interview with Pleun van der Lugt. He's de first Dutchman to sail solo around the world, setting a new record while doing so in 1981.

I guess you read Zilt Magazine?

But he is not the first Dutchman to sail solo around the world. He is the first one to do so non-stop. The first Dutchman to sail solo around the world is Herman Jansen, who wrote a beautiful book about it with amazing drawings by Gerard van Straaten. Fantastic reading if you're Dutch. Marktplaats.nl - De horizon zeilde mee, dag na dag... - Reisverhalen


Onno

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Panope

I would very much like to hear from more people who think that their own boat is not blue water capable.

I think I am the only one so far (See post #8).

Steve

I think it takes another thread?

Anyways, you asked, I answer: ours is not.

Now what?

b.

[TeddyDiver]

Just to throw in some aspects..
Bluewater capable: A boat you can cross an ocean, ie somewhat better in seaworthines and cargo allowance compared to coastal cruiser. Some consideration has to be taken when and where to sail depending of the season and weather windows etc. IMO most production A class sailboats.
Some are just better than others, and that's subjective matter depending on very many things what allready stated in so many posts. The most important thing is that there's not any single boat or design that's best for everbody or for every weather..

The smallest you can live with?
The biggest you can handle?
How much are the costs to purchase and maintain?
Single, couple, famile, amateur crew, racing crew?
and what you wan't to do except sail around. I do diving and fishing so a low sugarcoop stern is almost a necessity as well as a roomy walk-in lazarete. I wan't to spend extended periods in some of most remote places so need a lot of cargo capasity. For sailing back and forth between home and Caribean and staying in marinas other things are more important..
BR Teddy

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Headlines like this do not really inspire confidence in the cruising ability of these sized boats.

Jester Azores Challenge 2008 a huge success!
42 Starters and 28 finishers read more

A huge success

I admire the courage and skill of these sailors, but the message is passage making in this type of yacht is lottery.

Lyn and Larry Pardey show what it possible, but I think to cruise this small a boat you need exceptional skill and ability. The Jester chalange shows us that average results are poor for this sized yacht.

Working on that principal commercial fishing boats are more dangerous than my little Hurley 22 one Dec while crossing the Biscay..
3 fishing boats sank on the same night within a 50 mile radius of me... 3 died... I did not and made Viviero the following night.
All down the coast of Europe, Med and in the Carib you'll find sub 30ft boats cruising far from home... the Jester a competition held in Spring going out into the S.Approaches and the Atlantic when I doubt you, me and many others would contemplate starting a 'cruise'
Hell... no one sails the Biscay after September I hear....

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

The first Dutchman to sail solo around the world is Herman Jansen, who wrote a beautiful book about it with amazing drawings by Gerard van Straaten.

BTW, relevant to this thread: Herman Jansen's boat was Sounion, a Pionier designed by E.G. van der Stadt. 30ft long, 8ft wide and 3 tonne displacement.

The man is almost 90 now, and still owns this boat. And he still sails it. Kudos!!!


Onno

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

I've just reread an interview with Pleun van der Lugt. He's de first Dutchman to sail solo around the world, setting a new record while doing so in 1981. He did it in a Benford 35, a double ender build in ferrocement.
Asked if he would choose the same boat now, his answer was, "no way". He now sails multihulls...
He chose this boat at that time, because he didn't know a lot about boats and sailing, and in his ignorance just though that "heavy and strong" was the most important feature...

A multi is one answer to the motion comfort thing, but it's also a fact that a heavier monohull (or at least a heavier ballasted one) is less prone to excessive motion than a heavier one. That's not opinion, that's physics.

[RabidRabbit]

After reading this thread I'm trying to figure out why some need to define "bluewater"? It's just a word, its like being in high school and grouping anyone who plays sports as a jock or calling the smart kids nerds. Is it a sign that right now we lack a thread with real substance to argue about. I just dont get the passion for this issue. Maybe we have way, way to much time, because we're talking about nothing. It's the Seinfeld of CF, a thread about nothing. Why must others see it your way?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by RabidRabbit

After reading this thread I'm trying to figure out why some need to define "bluewater"? It's just a word, its like being in high school and grouping anyone who plays sports as a jock or calling the smart kids nerds. Is it a sign that right now we lack a thread with real substance to argue about. I just dont get the passion for this issue. Maybe we have way, way to much time, because we're talking about nothing. It's the Seinfeld of CF, a thread about nothing. Why must others see it your way?

I think the differing viewpoints over the term "blue water" is in itself informative. and therefore useful......no matter the actual content of the thread (my take is that most folks are in fundamental agreement that some boats are capable of going into blue water - some are not......the arguments simply over there being a lot of grey area in between!).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

most folks are in fundamental agreement that some boats are capable of going into blue water - some are not......the arguments simply over there being a lot of grey area in between!).

All boats are capable of going into 'Blue Water'.... its just theres a few that are incapable of coming back..

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by RabidRabbit

Maybe we have way, way to much time, because we're talking about nothing. It's the Seinfeld of CF, a thread about nothing.

well that is why we are here to start with

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I think the differing viewpoints over the term "blue water" is in itself informative. and therefore useful.....

I agree. I don't have a lot of bluewater experience yet (make that hardly any) and I find it very informative when people talk about their preferences. I don't need to agree with them, I can file it in the back of my head and see if later on with more experience I will agree or not. Even if I won't, other people's experience and views will help me define my own. And let's face it, bluewater sailing is fascinating!


Onno