What’s the smallest boat....

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

...

BTW USCG regulations don't care about any boats beyond the 12 mile limit of us sovereign teretorial waters.

Also COLREGS state in rule #5 that all vessels should ( not must or are required to) keep a proper lookout and that includes use of all available electronic means. ....

USCG authority over US flagged vessels extends over ALL international waters.
"The Coast Guard may board any vessel subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, whether on the high seas, or on waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of U.S. laws. 14 U.S.C. § 89."
https://www.mycg.uscg.mil/Authorities/
https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-1...c-sect-89.html

Foreign flagged vessels are only subject to USCG, without reservation, within 12nm or 200nm depending on issue in dispute.

The USCG can board the vessels of a whole host of nations in international waters provided they have the permission of the flag nation. Systems are in place so this permission can be requested and granted on short notice (Hours). The following article is a bit dated but still reasonably accurate.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...al-waters.html


Rule 5 - Lookout
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lgamated#rule5

I get how "shall" and "should" both start with "sh" and one could confuse them, but Rule#5 uses the word "shall" which is a synonym for "mandatory".
3 b—used in laws, regulations, or directives to express what is mandatory
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shall

If you sailing solo you are unlikely to be dinged for a Rule-5 violation unless a collision or something else untoward occurs which authorities take note of. Then you have a significantly reduced legal case.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by ctsrj1

...What is everyone’s thoughts on center boards?...

They tend to make the boat go clunk in the middle of the night. But they also let you go into places other "regular" boats can't. Or point a lot higher with a lot less leeway than others like IPs. Also when running with wind aft the beam you can trim the board to the sails and take a huge load off the auto pilot or the helmsman.


I would look for boats with a capsize number of well under 2. The Tartan 37-2 is a great boat but then I had one. Really good all around sailing boat. Light on tankage and storage but fun to sail. I am currently working on a Tayana Vancouver 42 which ticks all my boxes for me now. Real heavy but decent sailing boat, built like a tank. Great storage and tankage. No teak decks either.



When is a boat too big to single hand? For me any boat with a main sail over about 400 ft.sq unless it's got power assist (which will inevitably break, so KISS and stay under 400 ft sq.) For cruising and passages there is something to be said about heavy boats. Like they don't POUND to weather as much as some of the "newer" light weight boats do and the motion is much kinder in a seaway. Hard to describe but you'll know it when you see/feel it.



Good hunting. Hope you get a good surveyor!

[Don C L]

This article has some info specific to Shannon centerboards that you'll want to have surveyor check:
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...-37-39-vintage
(beautiful boat though! Even comes with wine!)
In case you didn't see it, this article may be helpful for the two Tartans
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...less-tartan-37

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Adelie

USCG authority over US flagged vessels extends over ALL international waters.
"The Coast Guard may board any vessel subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, whether on the high seas, or on waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of U.S. laws. 14 U.S.C. § 89."
https://www.mycg.uscg.mil/Authorities/
https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-1...c-sect-89.html

Foreign flagged vessels are only subject to USCG, without reservation, within 12nm or 200nm depending on issue in dispute.

The USCG can board the vessels of a whole host of nations in international waters provided they have the permission of the flag nation. Systems are in place so this permission can be requested and granted on short notice (Hours). The following article is a bit dated but still reasonably accurate.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...al-waters.html


Rule 5 - Lookout
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lgamated#rule5

I get how "shall" and "should" both start with "sh" and one could confuse them, but Rule#5 uses the word "shall" which is a synonym for "mandatory".
3 b—used in laws, regulations, or directives to express what is mandatory
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shall

If you sailing solo you are unlikely to be dinged for a Rule-5 violation unless a collision or something else untoward occurs which authorities take note of. Then you have a significantly reduced legal case.

This is straight out of the most current digital copy of the COLREGS on watch keeping
Look-out man

On all but the smallest vessels a seaman should normally be posted on look-out duty from dusk to dawn and sometimes by day, especially when the visibility is restricted.

Notice it says should not shall. Also there is no specific as to the smallest vessel size.

And on open ocean

Ocean look-out

There is some justification for relaxing the degree of look-out in the open Ocean where other vessels are infrequently seen and are unlikely to be encountered so as to involve risk of collision.


What you quoted is the USCG not international COLREGS.

[newhaul]

Btw I sail under the flag of the Conch Republic.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

This is straight out of the most current digital copy of the COLREGS on watch keeping
Look-out man

On all but the smallest vessels a seaman should normally be posted on look-out duty from dusk to dawn and sometimes by day, especially when the visibility is restricted.

Notice it says should not shall. Also there is no specific as to the smallest vessel size.

And on open ocean

Ocean look-out

There is some justification for relaxing the degree of look-out in the open Ocean where other vessels are infrequently seen and are unlikely to be encountered so as to involve risk of collision.


What you quoted is the USCG not international COLREGS.

The rule I quoted and linked to is from the "AMALGAMATED INTERNATIONAL & U.S. INLAND NAVIGATION RULES" on the USCG website. That is it shows both rules together.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lesAmalgamated

Generally the US has changed the wording of US inland rules to follow International verbiage. Where Inland and International rules differ the amalgamated text shows both. Notes at the top o the page indicate how to differentiate.
2. Text unique to either Rule is denoted by angle brackets; International Rules text is ‹ single-bracketed › and Inland Rules text is ‹‹ double-bracketed ›› and italicized;...

Rule #5 is the same for both US Inland and International rules.

I suspect whatever you have quoted is a commentary. As a commentary it does not hold force of law though it may be used as supporting evidence during a trial.

I would love to read that source, if you could provide a link I would greatly appreciate it.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Btw I sail under the flag of the Conch Republic.

Have you appropriately registered your vessel with USCPB as a foreign flagged vessel?
Isn't there some rule about foreign flagged vessels leaving US waters periodically?

[Jim Cate]

Please notice I never quote people. I feel it is rude and an example of poor manners.

What a quaint idea... that quoting something that you posted in a public forum is rude and expresses poor manners.

The only reason I can see for not wanting something I've posted being quoted is that after posting I find myself wishing I hadn't done so, usually because I have made some error of fact or observation. Is that what bothers you when you are quoted?

And practically speaking, if one fails to make a quote when responding to some previous post, how does anyone know to what you are referring?

You, of course, are free to maintain your own posting practices. Condemning others for using this common and useful feature of CF is (dare I say it?) rude IMO!

Jim

[Jim Cate]

On all but the smallest vessels

Does anyone have an idea what this means? Are we talking Tinkerbelle (13 foot day sailor), 30 foot yachts, 60 foot yachts... what?

And does that stricture mean a lookout besides the helmsman? I know that such is required aboard large vessels (and apparently not universally followed by commercial units).

COLREGS are for the most part very clearly written. I'm surprised when kinda vague things like this pop up.

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Adelie

The rule I quoted and linked to is from the "AMALGAMATED INTERNATIONAL & U.S. INLAND NAVIGATION RULES" on the USCG website. That is it shows both rules together.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lesAmalgamated

Generally the US has changed the wording of US inland rules to follow International verbiage. Where Inland and International rules differ the amalgamated text shows both. Notes at the top o the page indicate how to differentiate.
2. Text unique to either Rule is denoted by angle brackets; International Rules text is ‹ single-bracketed › and Inland Rules text is ‹‹ double-bracketed ›› and italicized;...

Rule #5 is the same for both US Inland and International rules.

I suspect whatever you have quoted is a commentary. As a commentary it does not hold force of law though it may be used as supporting evidence during a trial.

I would love to read that source, if you could provide a link I would greatly appreciate it.

Here you go my copy of the COLREGS.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ndroid.colregs

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Have you appropriately registered your vessel with USCPB as a foreign flagged vessel?
Isn't there some rule about foreign flagged vessels leaving US waters periodically?

Really darn I suppose I shouldn't be so tongue in cheek about anything.

The Conch Republic is also known of as key West Florida . It officially seceded from the USA and the USCG was sent to quell the rebellion and then failed and retreated without quelling it . So technically the Conch Republic is a sovereign national within the United States. It is recognized by Mexico as well as several other Central and south American countries

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Does anyone have an idea what this means? Are we talking Tinkerbelle (13 foot day sailor), 30 foot yachts, 60 foot yachts... what?

And does that stricture mean a lookout besides the helmsman? I know that such is required aboard large vessels (and apparently not universally followed by commercial units).

COLREGS are for the most part very clearly written. I'm surprised when kinda vague things like this pop up.

Jim

That I can not find a specific definition for .
I would consider a vessel that is not setup to comfortably Cary 4 crew to be considered to small to require full time watch standing. ( Giving a 4 on 12 off rotating watch. )

All I can find I'd references to watch standing on coi vessels nothing on private non inspected vessels.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That I can not find a specific definition for .
I would consider a vessel that is not setup to comfortably Cary 4 crew to be considered to small to require full time watch standing. ( Giving a 4 on 12 off rotating watch. )

All I can find I'd references to watch standing on coi vessels nothing on private non inspected vessels.

although they apply to all vessels, colregs are framed with commercial shipping in mind

in such case a 'small' vessel is probably less than say 500grt

i know commercial ships (other than the smallest) will hv an oow + a lookout. often (esp deep sea) this lookout is doing maintenance around the bridge deck / accommodation area, but is nearby if the oow needs something. when the oow is alone on the bridge he is the lookout

during reduced visibility / dark the lookout would be exclusively 'looking out' (as well as the oow, making 2), at least on all ships i sailed on...

nb : a lot of this stuff is in the libraries of other regulations that apply to ships (not the colregs) and just does not apply to recreational craft

cheers,

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by chrisr

although they apply to all vessels, colregs are framed with commercial shipping in mind

in such case a 'small' vessel is probably less than say 500grt

i know commercial ships (other than the smallest) will hv an oow + a lookout. often (esp deep sea) this lookout is doing maintenance around the bridge deck / accommodation area, but is nearby if the oow needs something

during reduced visibility / dark the lookout would be exclusively 'looking out', at least on all ships i sailed on.

nb : a lot of this stuff is in the libraries of other regulations that apply to ships (not the colregs) and just does not apply to recreational craft

cheers,

I did find one reference to small vessels as any under 100 ton and carrying less than 49 passengers

[Jim Cate]

I did find one reference to small vessels as any under 100 ton and carrying less than 49 passengers
_

Hah! I made the cut!

Jim