What sailboat for family circumnavigation in €500k-€1M range

[David B]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Thanks for the compliment!
You must be really busy and important.

[David B]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I agree using fishing boats as “ experience “ is nonsense. You might as well suggest getting experience on the submarine or a cargo ship

Most fishing boats are awful in a storm largely because they are designed to haul and store fish. ( I’ve been on one in the Atlantic ).

They bear no relationship to the needs of a yacht carrying a family, long term living etc , have you actually lived on a fishing boat , rough doesn’t describe it. etc.

Agree - it would put most of us here off. An extremely tough life!

[David B]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

Best advice so far!


Yes, there really is a reason the world is switching to cats.

Oh for goodness sake - he wants a monohull - leave him be!
There are pros and cons for both. Balance is a nice thing!!!

[David B]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

I took the totally opposite route. We started with charters to beautiful warm calm locations and grew from there. First crewed then bareboat. Always made sure the first few days was in the calmest of calm.

My admiral is now ready to cruise!

A very sensible approach. Ease people in - just like we are eased into life.
Traumatising someone is not going to do it!

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

Whoa, slow down guy. It's not the fault of any member that cats are more popular every single day. Things change and a good recommendation is just that, a good recommendation. Not an edict to buy. Slow yer role...

I’m not slowing anything.

I have nothing against cats. They’re great boats. The problem lies when cat guys lurk in the monohull section (and vice versa) and just can’t help themselves but comment about how they should buy the other hull type.

This invariably and predictably degenerates into an argument, with snide comments thrown back and forth. The thread then becomes one page of good information and discussion spread throughout seven pages of arguing and ********. Totally useless.

If this is in one of the common areas? Fair game. But the dude came to the monohull section for a reason.

[David B]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No you build up experience slowly carefully tailoring your sailing to suit your other half/family. If you find they dont enjoy going much more then island to island in the tropics then own it, that’s your sailing life.

If they get comfortable , you can slowly expand your horizons. But don’t push it.

Overtime you’ll build up more experience. But don’t use your family as an experiment in heavy weather sailing

If you need more experience crew on a few out of season deliveries

Very sound. We spent a serious amount of money having our new boat trucked from the Atlantic coast to the Med coast. I did NOT want my First Mates dream to turn into a nightmare in the year of delivery.

Second year I had her in a F9/10 blow off the coast of North Africa rounding a notorious cape (usual story - running to a schedule ....). She wasn't happy, but hunkered down and at the end of it said "I know our boat can look after us now!"

There were enough great experiences prior too in the bank, to keep the enthusiasm up.

[David B]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

I’m not slowing anything.

I have nothing against cats. They’re great boats. The problem lies when cat guys lurk in the monohull section (and vice versa) and just can’t help themselves but comment about how they should buy the other hull type.

This invariably and predictably degenerates into an argument, with snide comments thrown back and forth. The thread then becomes one page of good information and discussion spread throughout seven pages of arguing and ********. Totally useless.

If this is in one of the common areas? Fair game. But the dude came to the monohull section for a reason.

Well said!!!
We are supposed to be here to help eachother.

[David B]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No you build up experience slowly carefully tailoring your sailing to suit your other half/family. If you find they dont enjoy going much more then island to island in the tropics then own it, that’s your sailing life.

If they get comfortable , you can slowly expand your horizons. But don’t push it.

Overtime you’ll build up more experience. But don’t use your family as an experiment in heavy weather sailing

If you need more experience crew on a few out of season deliveries

Yes - a slow and sensible approach!

[David B]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Get a Catamaran…Sail with the wind! Space and comfort will keep everyone happy!

He wants a monohull! Let the ones who have some good advice, just try to be helpful.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Your plan is fine, and the budget is adequate.

Just a couple things to think about:

1. Buying a boat is not like buying a car. The purchase price of an ocean-going yacht is just the beginning. Even buying a new one, the cost to properly equip it is substantial. So if you're buying used, don't plan to spend more than 50% to 60% if your budget on the boat itself, and that is in case of a boat which has been really well maintained and is not too old.

2. Contrary to what some people will tell you, and with a lot of passion, people circumnavigate all the time in mass-produced inexpensive boats like Beneteau, Bavaria, Dehler etc. Circumnavigation in the trade winds latitudes is not all that challenging and most people who do that never experience really big weather. Where a really brick outhouse boat is needed is in high latitudes.

3. My own choice would nevertheless not be a mass produced boat. There are other drawbacks for long distance cruising -- tanks, storage, layout, cockpit, deck, rig. I would rather choose something like a Hallberg Rassy, Contest, Oyster, Moody (English one, not the Hanse built one), etc. You can buy a good Oyster 53 or 50-ish foot HR in your budget. Look hard to find something which has been really well maintained; ideally just after refit. Look for a cutter or a ketch rig. You want flexibility in the sail plan for this kind of sailing. You want to be able to easily reduce sail area in stronger weather.

4. Your plan to buy a larger boat is a good one. Over 50 feet is much more comfortable and safe for offshore sailing. Crossing oceans you need a lot of supplies, spare parts, and fuel. It's not fun having all that stuff stacked up everywhere because there is no storage space.

5. Two years is plenty of time to gain the skills you need, but you should do the RYA courses. This is also plenty of time to make sure the whole family really enjoys sailing and being at sea, and want to do this. Some people just don't like long passages or bad weather.

6. During those two years sail the boat as much as you have time for (including some longer passages as you gain experience) and fix everything yourself. A big part of long term cruising is maintenance and repair. If something breaks mid-ocean or on a remote island you will either fix it yourself or you won't have it. And fix it yourself with (1) spares you have on board; and (2) tools you have on board. You will need the whole two years before you leave getting the boat into proper condition and properly equipped.


7. To get a hint what it's like to cross an ocean, you need to go on a passage which is at least 3 or 4 days long. Only on about the third day under way do you start to get a real feel for the rhythm of life under way offshore. Many people find it extremely enjoyable (I do); others don't. You might find someone who will take you along as crew on something like that; note the crew wanted section of this forum. I recommend spending time as volunteer crew on other people's boats, on the longest passages you can find, while you're looking for your boat. You'll learn a lot and understand a lot faster what this is all about.


Good luck, and let us know how you get on. Ask your questions here; this forum is a treasurehouse of experience and knowledge, and people are mostly pretty generous with sharing it!

Great advice!

Thank you.

[David B]

Originally Posted by eneas

Hi all,
new to the forum; as a family we have limited experience in sailing - occasional charters, but now have a vision to aim for building up our knowledge and experience in the next few years to eventually take a sabbatical and circumnavigate the globe, explore the hidden corners and live a board for ~2 years before returning to busy lives in cities.

We aim to purchase a boat that will be bluewater capable, but also cosy and nice/modern design that feels good to live on. It should be capable of handling 10-15 years of light cruising with 1 or 2 circumnavigations. Ideally as a family we would consider something in the 54-58ft range to have enough space and comfort... but we are limited with a budget of between €500k (easy) to €750k (still doable) up to possibly €1M (getting into uncomfortable territory).
This budget takes out the Hallberg-Rassy 57 out of the equation as this one is closer to €2M. Bavaria C57, Oceanis Yacht 54 and similar are nicely within the budget, but but not sure if these are really sturdy and solid enough for circumnavigation?

Any help in pointing us in the right direction would be highly appreciated!!

New vs used. Like anything, there are pro's and con's.
Old - you may be in for a surprise or two - or you may get great value.
The boat will likely have much of the equipment you would otherwise need to buy - but it may not be worth having.
You could look for a lightly used boat, and save substantially on the cost - just find a really good surveyor as part of the buying process.

New - well assuming the new models are still built OK (and in some cases that is questionable ...), then there is a lot to be said for new, if your budget allows. You can turn your new boat into your floating home just the way you like it, rather than the 'what were they thinking' moments.

The rigging is new, so that expense is spared. Sure, you will need to buy equipment for the boat, but it will also be new, and that's nice.

We bought new, and were told we were crazy - we have no regrets.
We got an excellent run-out model deal to make the cost substantially better, but I am sure that's not unique. Check out the boat shows - there are deals to be had.

As to equipment, well it is not a huge expense. A tender, an outboard, liferaft, jackets, harnesses, flares, fire extinguishers, EPIRB, PLB's, HH VHF's, Caframo fans in every cabin, etc, etc, etc.
Then linen, towels, pots and pans, food storage containers, galley appliances, parts storage bins, etc, etc.

If you allowed 5% or so of a new boat purchase price, you would be about there.

After all the sea worthiness, and sea kindliness considerations:
You are going to be living on this boat for an extended time - and times.
You want it to be your floating home away from home
You want it to be a delight to the eye, and a delight to live on

Of the affordable boats you mentioned, the Beneteau Yacht 54 would be one I would take some time going over.

And no, you don't need an 'expedition yacht' to do a circumnavigation - plenty of people are doing it in production boats, and for that matter, more Beneteau's are doing it than any other boat in the world!

Seriously consider a generator and desalination unit. Look at getting an extra fridge installed. Solar is also nice, but don't wreck the look of the boat in doing it.
Stowage is paramount - apart from provisions and spares, you will want water toys. You will also want a locker for your bags of garbage.

100 metres of chain on a decent anchor such as a Spade, is a very worthy investment.

With the tender - look hard at an air-floored dinghy. They plane almost as well as a RIB, and you can roll the whole thing up, and stow it in a locker

You have plenty of capable and affordable boats new and used to choose from. Enjoy the adventure, but also enjoy the fun of finding the boat for you and your family - it should be an exciting time!.

[Howard888]

Way back in 2003 after the events of '911, we decided to sell our house and buy a boat. I had some sailing experience but my wife and kids (girls 6 & 9) had none.
We bought a 50ft FD12 cutter rigged sloop for $105K USD in South Carolina. Our first overseas trip was to the Bahamas, just 60nm across the gulf-stream
3 months later we were back in the States with a laundry list of repairs and upgrades. Once these were completed, we set out again; Cuba 90nm then Mexico, 120nm... We had been living aboard and learning the cruising lifestyle for over a year before we set off on really long distant ocean passages, Honduras to Panama and Panama to Cartagena and back. We now had two years living aboard before we set sail across the Pacific.
In my opinion, yes you need to choose your boat well, but we met cruisers in Cuba that had a $15K ferro boat. (the point here is that they were out there cruising), Yes you need to get experience, but incremental learning while coastal cruising helps everyone grow. The kids too.( I didn't take an RYA course until I was back in NZ 5 yrs after I bought the boat)
Buying the boat and getting out on the water full time was the most life defining event we as a family have ever had. Just get out there and do it!
We have just bought a 41ft Catalac catamaran, built in 1984. I have every confidence that this boat can take us around the world. We could not afford a cat back in 2003, but found that a 6.5ft draft kept us out of a lot of wonderful locations and my wife never got over the boat heeling. The reason there are so my plastic boat youtubers out there is that they have the room and comfort to be able to produce the vlogs.
I have an Air Force background. We always said anyone can be uncomfortable, referring to the Army as we checked in to a 5 star hotel while they dug foxholes for the night.
Cats are far and away better live-aboard vessels and you can choose your passages and weather routing much better today than you could even when we were setting out. Just make a D and get out there. If you don't like your choice in a few years time, at least you will now have the experience to choose another boat.
Best of luck.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by David B

New vs used. Like anything, there are pro's and con's.
Old - you may be in for a surprise or two - or you may get great value.
The boat will likely have much of the equipment you would otherwise need to buy - but it may not be worth having.
You could look for a lightly used boat, and save substantially on the cost - just find a really good surveyor as part of the buying process.

New - well assuming the new models are still built OK (and in some cases that is questionable ...), then there is a lot to be said for new, if your budget allows. You can turn your new boat into your floating home just the way you like it, rather than the 'what were they thinking' moments.

The rigging is new, so that expense is spared. Sure, you will need to buy equipment for the boat, but it will also be new, and that's nice.

We bought new, and were told we were crazy - we have no regrets.
We got an excellent run-out model deal to make the cost substantially better, but I am sure that's not unique. Check out the boat shows - there are deals to be had.

As to equipment, well it is not a huge expense. A tender, an outboard, liferaft, jackets, harnesses, flares, fire extinguishers, EPIRB, PLB's, HH VHF's, Caframo fans in every cabin, etc, etc, etc.
Then linen, towels, pots and pans, food storage containers, galley appliances, parts storage bins, etc, etc.

If you allowed 5% or so of a new boat purchase price, you would be about there.

After all the sea worthiness, and sea kindliness considerations:
You are going to be living on this boat for an extended time - and times.
You want it to be your floating home away from home
You want it to be a delight to the eye, and a delight to live on

Of the affordable boats you mentioned, the Beneteau Yacht 54 would be one I would take some time going over.

And no, you don't need an 'expedition yacht' to do a circumnavigation - plenty of people are doing it in production boats, and for that matter, more Beneteau's are doing it than any other boat in the world!

Seriously consider a generator and desalination unit. Look at getting an extra fridge installed. Solar is also nice, but don't wreck the look of the boat in doing it.
Stowage is paramount - apart from provisions and spares, you will want water toys. You will also want a locker for your bags of garbage.

100 metres of chain on a decent anchor such as a Spade, is a very worthy investment.

With the tender - look hard at an air-floored dinghy. They plane almost as well as a RIB, and you can roll the whole thing up, and stow it in a locker

You have plenty of capable and affordable boats new and used to choose from. Enjoy the adventure, but also enjoy the fun of finding the boat for you and your family - it should be an exciting time!.

Lot of good advice here. I would second the comment here about buying new. There is a lot to be said for doing that. The systems will all be zero-timed, which is a huge advantage. Compared to the price of a 5 or 6 year old boat where the systems are all half-used up, buying new might not be a bad deal financially.

As to mass produced boats -- as I said, that wouldn't be my choice, but that doesn't mean it can't be a valid choice, and it is certainly true that you don't need an expedition boat to do a circumnav, not at all. If you go down that road, note that different mass produced boats are - different. Some of them quite strong (Jenneaus for example up to the early 2000's were stick built like high end boats), some of them dangerously flimsy. If you think about going that way, you should get some good advice on the specific model you are considering. I would tend to stay away from some of the modern designs with huge hull ports, wide sterns and cockpits with no place to hang on to and such other obviously unseaworthy features -- those boats are not intended for blue water at all. And avoid anything with questionable structural qualities. Some models of Beneteaus, for example, had very flimsy rudder tube support -- you really want to avoid that. But others are quite ok. You will need expert advice.

As to what you will spend equipping the boat -- 5% will not be nearly enough to add to the price of a new mass produced boat if you are adding watermaker (€5000 to €10 000 with installation) and generator (€10 000 to €25 000 with installation) and/or solar. The cost of equipping of a new boat for blue water sailing adds up REAL fast. A proper ocean-crossing spare parts kit alone might cost you €10 000, or even more; then you have tools to buy (there are some good threads in this forum about that). Medical kit. Get the electronics like you like them -- does the boat come with radar? Communications gear (cheap and good is Iridium Go! but if you want HF radio, a well installed set can cost more than €5000). A quality hypalon tender and outboard can easily cost more than €10 000. How about davits or chocks? You could spend €5000 there or more. Emergency and safety gear (life raft, EPIRB, MOB beacons, flares, life jackets, jacklines with installation, tethers, emergency ladder, jonbuoy, life sling, etc. -- €5000 might not be enough). Upgraded bilge pumps, bilge alarm. Gas alarm, CO alarm, smoke alarm, exhaust alarm -- thousands more. Grab bag. Then all the domestic equipment, everything in the galley, linens, AV equipment. Canvas (spray hood, bimini, etc.) can easily cost €10 000. Proper ground tackle (a Spade anchor and chain for a 50'+ boat plus spare and/or kedge anchor will cost thousands of euros). Downwind sails (you will want for the tradewinds). A Parasailor for a 50'+ boat is over €10 000 if I'm not mistaken. Deck gear -- spinnaker pole, mounting gear, track, etc. (you really want to have that even if you don't use a normal spinnaker, for poling out the jib, managing downwind sails when off the wind). That's a few thousand euros. Rigging kit, splicing kit, sail repair kit. Charts and books -- you'll spend over a thousand right there. And that's not an exhaustive list at all.

It would be easy to spend €100 000 on all this. And this is for a new boat which doesn't need any repairs or replacements! So, again -- don't spend all your budget on the boat itself.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Lot of good advice here. I would second the comment here about buying new. There is a lot to be said for doing that. The systems will all be zero-timed, which is a huge advantage. Compared to the price of a 5 or 6 year old boat where the systems are all half-used up, buying new might not be a bad deal financially.

As to mass produced boats -- as I said, that wouldn't be my choice, but that doesn't mean it can't be a valid choice, and it is certainly true that you don't need an expedition boat to do a circumnav, not at all. If you go down that road, note that different mass produced boats are - different. Some of them quite strong (Jenneaus for example up to the early 2000's were stick built like high end boats), some of them dangerously flimsy. If you think about going that way, you should get some good advice on the specific model you are considering. I would tend to stay away from some of the modern designs with huge hull ports, wide sterns and cockpits with no place to hang on to and such other obviously unseaworthy features -- those boats are not intended for blue water at all. And avoid anything with questionable structural qualities. Some models of Beneteaus, for example, had very flimsy rudder tube support -- you really want to avoid that. But others are quite ok. You will need expert advice.

As to what you will spend equipping the boat -- 5% will not be nearly enough to add to the price of a new mass produced boat if you are adding watermaker (€5000 to €10 000 with installation) and generator (€10 000 to €25 000 with installation) and/or solar. The cost of equipping of a new boat for blue water sailing adds up REAL fast. A proper ocean-crossing spare parts kit alone might cost you €10 000, or even more; then you have tools to buy (there are some good threads in this forum about that). Medical kit. Get the electronics like you like them -- does the boat come with radar? Communications gear (cheap and good is Iridium Go! but if you want HF radio, a well installed set can cost more than €5000). A quality hypalon tender and outboard can easily cost more than €10 000. How about davits or chocks? You could spend €5000 there or more. Emergency and safety gear (life raft, EPIRB, MOB beacons, flares, life jackets, jacklines with installation, tethers, emergency ladder, jonbuoy, life sling, etc. -- €5000 might not be enough). Upgraded bilge pumps, bilge alarm. Gas alarm, CO alarm, smoke alarm, exhaust alarm -- thousands more. Grab bag. Then all the domestic equipment, everything in the galley, linens, AV equipment. Canvas (spray hood, bimini, etc.) can easily cost €10 000. Proper ground tackle (a Spade anchor and chain for a 50'+ boat plus spare and/or kedge anchor will cost thousands of euros). Downwind sails (you will want for the tradewinds). A Parasailor for a 50'+ boat is over €10 000 if I'm not mistaken. Deck gear -- spinnaker pole, mounting gear, track, etc. (you really want to have that even if you don't use a normal spinnaker, for poling out the jib, managing downwind sails when off the wind). That's a few thousand euros. Rigging kit, splicing kit, sail repair kit. Charts and books -- you'll spend over a thousand right there. And that's not an exhaustive list at all.

It would be easy to spend €100 000 on all this. And this is for a new boat which doesn't need any repairs or replacements! So, again -- don't spend all your budget on the boat itself.

Yes, I go with that, and yes, there are good and bad in many brands.

The reference to 5% was after the boat was ordered. Naturally buying new, we ordered ours with all the equipment installed.

We fully kitted out our 50' with all the domestic stuff for around EUR4500 (it helped that Galleries Lafayette had their regular Spring sale on - 30% off everything ).

We also ordered through our dealer, a full pallet of equipment from Plastimo - at substantial discount from walk-in chandlery prices.

I wish we had weighed as we went, but with everything onboard now including hand and power tools etc, I would not be surprised if we have added 1000-1500kg to the boat - or more. And she still sails beautifully .

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by David B

. . . I wish we had weighed as we went, but with everything onboard now including hand and power tools etc, I would not be surprised if we have added 1000-1500kg to the boat - or more. And she still sails beautifully .

Because she's 50 feet.


I really dislike smaller boats for long distance cruising because they don't carry the weight of the necessary gear, supplies, and bunkering like a bigger boat does. I would never move down to a smaller boat than I have and actually would really like something about 10' longer. In 54' you cannot fill the bunks (which might be only 4 people if no one shares) and still have room for everything needed for a month off grid, and there is a shortage of technical space and storage in any case.


This is an even bigger problem with catamarans. I actually think catamarans are fantastic for trade winds sailing, and the lack of heel is just priceless. Living for days at a time (never mind weeks) on a heel is really unpleasant. But the cat needs to be pretty big to carry all the stuff you want for a circumnav and still sail worth a damn. Cats carry LESS in a relation to a given amount of room, than monos do. So here I would want 50'+, too.