What sailboat would you recommend? 50k budget

[ShipOfFools]

Here's a few requirements...

cost: 20,000 to 50,000 USD used price... can be more $ for extras
live aboard convenience ... must have...
length 30 to 45 feet... below 45' is a must
need ability to sail this on my own...must have
sailboat but with inboard or outboard motor with plenty of gas...nice to have
Europe, Mediterranean... ill be buying this here... must have....
blue water/ocean cruiser/circumnavigation... nice to have
stylish interior and exterior... nice to have
age... from 1980 to 2005... nice to have
fixer upper.... im fine doing boat maintenance as im basically retired..

What manufacturer and model would you recommend? thanks i have no problem buying a fixer upper and putting elbow greese into fixing it as im basically going to be a live aboard and consider myself a hard worker. A few other minor requirements, ill be in a port in the Mediterranean so ill be looking to buy it over there, and obviously not in the USA.
I may have guests, so ill need sleeping quarters for myself plus at least a few other people, at least, perhaps as many as 5. Sometimes ill prefer to sail the boat alone, so it will need to be small enough for me to sail by myself. For the price id shoot for something in the 20 to 50k range, but if extras were another 10k, thats also fine. Thanks for your advice. ShipOfFools.

[Don C L]

Wow. Tall order. First of all, if you are living aboard I would not recommend a fixer-upper. It is really hard to live aboard and do any major work, and you can forget sailing in that situation too. 5 guests in a 30' boat? I don't see it. in 40 or 45' yes, maybe but you say you want to be able to singlehand too and it sounds like your experience is limited right now. And then your budget of 20K to 50K.
I think it would be better to go to the port in the Med you like and walk the docks and see what's for sale and then ask here about models you see that strike your fancy and look like they might fit your budget. Many folks here can help direct you, especially with knowledge of European boats which you'll likely be asking about.
You might find a boat that is big, roomy, old and has a nice interior but needs new sails and rigging maybe, and cosmetically needs a lot of work on the outside (but if the engine is blown, forget it.) That is a kind of boat you could live on and save your pennies for the items that don't affect its liveability. Something like a Westsail 43 comes to mind, (though that is a lot of boat to take on singlehandedly,) but I am sure there are good European designs that might fit that bill that I am not familiar with. You would need to be sure it has a very good engine since you'll probably be motoring a lot.

[Manateeman]

Your budget and your wish list simply do not match.
Take 25% of your budget for repairs and upgrades and find someone knowledgeable to help you source a solid boat.
The huge disparity between your budget and wish list leads me to believe you would truly benefit from guidance before purchase. Please don’t dismiss the advice wish might be contrary to your ideals. Almost everyone owning a boat comes to the realization that simplicity has its benefits. Keeping a bit put away for an unexpected expense helps lessen the pain. Owning any boat is a sometimes a voyage into a sea of unpleasant surprises. The blogs of Ken, Barbie and the cat depict sailing in very unrealistic context. Boatyards are filled with broken dreams. The ocean floor is carpeted with shipwrecks. Lifeboats are small, stoutly built, simple and designed to survive the reality of oceans. Once at sea, their design becomes a lot more appealing than the amenities offered on yachts.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his professional boatbuilder manatees

[ShipOfFools]

"Wow. Tall order. First of all, if you are living aboard I would not recommend a fixer-upper. It is really hard to live aboard and do any major work, and you can forget sailing in that situation too. 5 guests in a 30' boat? I don't see it. in 40 or 45' yes"

Thanks for the advice, i would probably lean towards shorter than 40' if its easier for me to sail on my own. Could move the # of guests to 2 or 3 max, so 5 is just a nice to have in bunks if possible, and im sensitive on price as well.

Ill be looking to see what's available probably within the next few months, but i am an American living overseas and will be in the Mediterranean sooner or later.

[chrisr]

respectfully : i think you need to add a '1" in front of your budget figure

cheers,

[Manateeman]

Hi. No one wants to throw a bucket of ice water on your head. I apologize if I seemed a bit harsh. Let’s try this.
What is your get start budget. By this I mean, what can you offer the seller in cash. This isn’t your tool and material cash reserve nor the stuff you need to move aboard.
Next, what amount can you put into the boat every month above your personal living expenses.
Next, what is your current skill set in boatbuilding and repair. Be honest about picking up skills via books, on line..etc.
It’s very difficult and unpleasant to live in a box built on top of your deck but not impossible. Ive seen boats built from a shipping container house / shop.
Boatbuilding requires perseverance. It’s not yachting. If you can spend all day in downward facing dog position, cold, filthy, exhausted, hungry and frustrated...
you might make it out of the boatyard. The field of broken dreams.
This forum is a huge collection of extremely knowledgeable boat owners and a few windbags. You’ll have to sift a lot of gravel to find gold but it’s there.
I’m not interested in helping Ken, Barbie and the cat.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his happy manatees

[ShipOfFools]

Originally Posted by chrisr

respectfully : i think you need to add a '1" in front of your budget figure

cheers,

I could i just don't want to if i dont have to. Id prefer to do something as cheaply as possible. First thing i need to know my month to month costs of renting a boat slip with power in the countries of Montenegro, Greece, Italy, Croatia, or all of the above depending on which port im going into.

After all my expenses are tallied id like to compare the cost of living on the boat as a live aboard versus inside a budget level house.

[ShipOfFools]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Next, what is your current skill set in boatbuilding and repair. Be honest about picking up skills via books, on line..etc.

Not really a lot of skills or tools at the moment, however my timeframe is unlimited, since ill be not working while im on the boat, so i can spend a lot of time putting in elbow grease!

Im actually in my 40s and decided to quit my job and travel the world with savings. Ive already been gone for 1 years time!

[Manateeman]

Hi. OK, now we are getting somewhere. If you could put a 1 in front, then I get where you are budget wise...and that’s great.
Less expensive than a house? Maybe, or maybe not. You’ll get opinions for both.
It’s not just elbow grease...it’s time. If you enjoy boatbuilding, it’s histeric fun.
You can save money fixing up an older boat but there is a real trap door a lot of people don’t see. First, they don’t have a cash reserve and that sinks them.
Second, they buy a total wreck...a boat that the materials and yard costs are more than the value. Third, they have no idea of the misery involved in some projects and they burn out and end with nothing but an unfinished project.
Sometimes they get sick or just die.
I looked at several excellent unfinished boats only to find that the builder died or got sick or they had their house burn down or in one case, died from a fall off the boat. Some beautiful new boats unfinished because the owners walked away and the yard needs to find someone to pay just to get it in shape to float away.
One aluminum boat built indoors and sold for the value of the metal alone. Shipped across the country and finished by the owners for a huge savings.
Builders are stuck with walk away projects and you can then finish them as you wish. It’s a lot easier than doing an old boat. You could price out a hull, deck and engine new and live aboard if you have a workshop on deck or next to the boat.
Not yachting, not nice like a house, but possible.
Whatever you do, you should post photos the forum can look at and pay for your own surveyor. Old or wrecked boats are mine fields. Nice new unfinished...you can see what you pay for and you start with something solid.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his aluminum loving manatees

[Lawrence plante]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Your budget and your wish list simply do not match.
Take 25% of your budget for repairs and upgrades and find someone knowledgeable to help you source a solid boat.
The huge disparity between your budget and wish list leads me to believe you would truly benefit from guidance before purchase. Please don’t dismiss the advice wish might be contrary to your ideals. Almost everyone owning a boat comes to the realization that simplicity has its benefits. Keeping a bit put away for an unexpected expense helps lessen the pain. Owning any boat is a sometimes a voyage into a sea of unpleasant surprises. The blogs of Ken, Barbie and the cat depict sailing in very unrealistic context. Boatyards are filled with broken dreams. The ocean floor is carpeted with shipwrecks. Lifeboats are small, stoutly built, simple and designed to survive the reality of oceans. Once at sea, their design becomes a lot more appealing than the amenities offered on yachts.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his professional boatbuilder manatees

Agreed. Idea of building a small sturdy ketch, 25' or less cool. Just met a single gander world sailor in 12' self made ketch in Erie pa. He went around cape horn in it. If that's what's being suggested, yes agreed.

[Mag3]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...mu-46-3609037/

[Fersail]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...u-381-3718883/

[zstine]

I don't know what the neigh sayers are talking about. there are TONS of boats that satisfy his needs.



I would say get a high quality older cruising boat that has been upgraded for cruising (solar, watermaker, davits, etc. but not used too hard)
An early 80's Tartan 37 for example. many out there cruising and for sale in your price, in the USA.
some other names.. Irwin, Tayana, Morgan, westerly, Halberg Rassy, Allied, Endeavour, Amel



Production boats are okay, but I think you end up chasing issues more and they may not be as sea worthy assuming you plan to cross oceans. You are buying in Europe? I'm sure there are many small manufactures over there that produce excellent boats.

[Junk Viking]

Originally Posted by Mag3

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...mu-46-3609037/

Reinke is actually a good example of an accomplished design from Germany.
Most are fully home build, but alu boats are normally professionally welded with home build interior.

No reason to start from scratch (even if I looked at that hull more than once )
It's way too expensive to fit out and a ton of work.

I do recommend that the OP looks at professionally build hulls with home made interior. There are a lot of good bargains!
Many are steel or GRP, some are alu.
Many have sailed extensively and are fitted out to do so.


This is only an example, but it's in my home marina, and I should be back there next week and can check it out.
45' alu € 23k
https://dailyboats.com/boat/156931-buy-reinke-45

I personally prefer deck saloon designs - and only the ones with 360 degree view from the raised settee like:

Smaller, but ready to sail and nice interior:
34' €38k
https://www.yachtall.com/en/boat/reinke-10m-345170

Again - these are only examples and on a design I personally know.

Ask others for other designs
Don't get too exited
Have Survey done
Be critical
Think carefully
Sleep on it
Negotiate price

Peace

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by ShipOfFools

"Wow. Tall order. First of all, if you are living aboard I would not recommend a fixer-upper. It is really hard to live aboard and do any major work, and you can forget sailing in that situation too. 5 guests in a 30' boat? I don't see it. in 40 or 45' yes"

Thanks for the advice, i would probably lean towards shorter than 40' if its easier for me to sail on my own. Could move the # of guests to 2 or 3 max, so 5 is just a nice to have in bunks if possible, and im sensitive on price as well.

Ill be looking to see what's available probably within the next few months, but i am an American living overseas and will be in the Mediterranean sooner or later.

It's the size of the sails that dictate how hard or easy it is to single hand not the length. The bigger the boat the larger the sails need to be to push it. For a small bit of single handling you'll probably just use the motor so the size of the sails won't matter.

Your limited budget means you'll be looking very hard for a deal which you'll probably find in Croatia, Greece or Turkey(or even the Black Sea) if it exists. Western Europe will be out of your budget. You need to be very careful with fixer upper boats as many of them end up costing more than one in good condition would have cost at market value. A mid sized cruiser in your price range is going to require a lot of compromises on your part.