What to choose: a 12 yr old Bavaria or 22 Yr old Swedisch ship?

[No44]

Hi...I am new to this forum... I have a question: I am currently in the middle of deciding to buy -my first- sailboat. I have 2 ships that I am considering: a 2000 Bavaria 42 Ft and a 1990 Scanmar 40 Ft...I know totally not comparable however both are attractive, equally priced (!) but..two different worlds....The Bavaria looks new, updated..but fragile...the Scanmar is more a 'men's boat', heavyer, more prepared for rough weather sailing...but it is 22 years old....
Any Advice?

[No44]

or experiences?

[Cheechako]

Dont know a lot about either. It appears the Scanmar is a balsa cored hull, if the Bavaria is solid glass that would be reason enough for me to go with the Bavaria. Newer is often better in comparable boats. The Scanmar appears to be a fin keel and not many were built. Sometimes that can be because the design has handling problems. (excessive weather helm etc), or it could be they just bit the bullet due to economic reasons....

[sailorboy1]

get the newer boat!

[Bash]

Originally Posted by No44

the Scanmar is more a 'men's boat', heavyer, more prepared for rough weather sailing

Always go with the more manly boat. The fact that it's slower through the water and cave-like down below should endear it to a real man. Whatever you do, ignore the girly advice that newer is better--that sort of thinking doesn't apply to Neanderthals.

The nice thing about a manly boat is that you don't have to post a "No Gurls Allowed" sign on the dock; they'll know to stay away instinctively.

[europaflyer]

Personally, I don't know either of them. However, by the numbers, the Scanmar is a heavier boat (185 vs 148 displacement/length ratio) and a better ballasted one (47% vs 33% ballast ratio). In theory then, a more seakindly, seaworthy boat. The exceptional ballast ratio points to a yacht with some real power in heavy weather. But who cares about numbers.

The Scanmar somehow looks much more like a proper ocean going yacht. The few for sale one the web look like they have really nice interiors (although Bavs are good for production boats) and nice exteriors too (there's one with a full teak deck, including on the coachroof - looks great). Personally, I would always go with the higher quality but older boat. That's just me though. Perhaps if you want to go offshore, look more at the Scanmar, but Bav owners here will claim Bavs are just as capable. If coastal is more you're thing, then just go with the one you like most.

Cored yachts are a fad which seem to pop up every few years. Not necessarily a problem when done well but... get a good surveyor, and give the hull a few taps with a hammer yourself. Springy/hollow sounding equals bad news. Check the through-hulls are done properly.

Having said all that, Bavs aren't bad boats. I've sailed one similar to the 42 and it was great. Don't miss a season dreaming away about which yacht is really the best. Follow your instinct, grab one, and get out there!

[No44]

Thanks for the replies so far.... I am planning to sail from England/Netherlands along the coast of France/Portugal....

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by No44

Hi...I am new to this forum... I have a question: I am currently in the middle of deciding to buy -my first- sailboat. I have 2 ships that I am considering: a 2000 Bavaria 42 Ft and a 1990 Scanmar 40 Ft...I know totally not comparable however both are attractive, equally priced (!) but..two different worlds....The Bavaria looks new, updated..but fragile...the Scanmar is more a 'men's boat', heavyer, more prepared for rough weather sailing...but it is 22 years old....
Any Advice?

I don't know either of them hands on. and neither of them "do it" for me. Both of them would do the job you are intending, and likely very nicely.

Really comes down to which you like the look of / prefer best.....and which is in the better condition overall.

Build quality - I know Bavarias do get a knocking but they built a lot of them, so they can't be a complete pile of poo! even if you wouldn't use her for nudging sea ice off Newfoundland. But the upside is that with lots built should be a lot of info from both owners (and ex Owners - who tend to be more honest!) on the internet.

Personally I like the look of the Bavaria better (more modern, the Scanmar seems just a bit dated in looks - but without having the character of an older boat. BTW mine is 1970!).

So many Boats - so many choices

[europaflyer]

Sailing England - Portugal... that means Biscay. As these unfortunate people found out to their cost (http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...an%20Madam.pdf) that's not to be messed with. Based on specs alone, a properly maintained Scanmar might tackle heavy weather with more ease than the Bavaria... but the Bav should handle it, no question.

Personally, I prefer the looks of the Scanmar (the Bav looks a bit run-of-the-mill), and the interior joinery looks really top notch.

My choice would be the Scanmer - it looks like a higher quality boat. This is not my decision: it's yours! No-one here can help you with that. Either of the boats will do well as long as it is properly maintained. Our sport is sailing, not boat ownership, and both of these will sail just fine. Have a look at both if you can't decide, then choose the one you fall in love with!

Here's a paragraph from Andrew Evans book on singlehanded sailing (freely downloadable) which you might find pertinent.

"The worst boat is the one that will be purchased “next year.” I know of too many wannabees who spend their time searching for the perfect boat, but never get out on the water. I’ve had many conversations with these dreamers, asking me what boat they should buy, doing months of research on one boat, then another. It seems they can name every design and model, but they never pull away from the dock. Until they do so, they are only pretenders. But the moment they get out on the water, they become a singlehanded sailor. Here is my decree: If a person misses even one season for lack of a boat, he is a dreamer, not a sailor."

Wise words! As I said before - get a boat, and get out there.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by No44

The Bavaria looks new, updated..but fragile...the Scanmar is more a 'men's boat', heavyer, more prepared for rough weather sailing.

Actually the Bavaria is the heavier boat, and significantly so:
18898 vs. 16536 lb.

If you subtract the ballast weight and just look at the 'structural' weight the Bavaria is even heavier:
12713 vs 8820lb.

The Bavaria looks lighter because of it's much longer waterline which skews the D/L ratio.

If you take the 'structural' weight and adjust for length and beam the Bavaria still looks significantly heavier than the Scanmar. Assuming similar construction quality and construction techniques (both cored, both with similar amounts of liners) the Bavaria will be the stronger boat. If they are not built similarly then it becomes more debatable which is the stronger boat and in what conditions.

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2545
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4847

[Cheechako]

Apparantly the 2000 year Bavaria 42 model was only built for 3 years. Interesting 27 sec video on keel/hull issues...

Bavaria Keel Problems May-2004 (1/2) - YouTube

is this the boat?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by europaflyer

Personally, I don't know either of them. However, by the numbers, the Scanmar is a heavier boat (185 vs 148 displacement/length ratio) and a better ballasted one (47% vs 33% ballast ratio). In theory then, a more seakindly, seaworthy boat. The exceptional ballast ratio points to a yacht with some real power in heavy weather. But who cares about numbers.
!

You can not compare "ratios" of old style boats to new style boats because of the waterline of new boats. If you redid the calc using design waterlines you would get a different picture.

My current boat's DLR of 165 seems light compared to my last of 245, but it isn't in use.

Get a modern boat with room in it and be happy 95% of the time instead of only 5%

[Cheechako]

The only boat I bought that I relied too much on the numbers was the worst I ever had. Be careful about numbers! They are a small part of the equation for sure... unless you're competitively racing.