When is a boat too big?

[Haddock1]

Originally Posted by dcarratt

I upgraded from an X-yachts X-46 (46ft) to an X4.9 (50ft) about 18 months ago and sailed her, mainly double handed, from Denmark to Barcelona over two seasons. We bought the new boat specifically to sail as we get older and to lower the physical workload. I'm 65 and my long distance crew member is 72. The increase in LOA makes a big difference to comfort at sea. The new boat is a lot stiffer as well - so it's a much more comfortable ride overall. I don't think increase in LOA, on its own, makes a lot of difference to manageability. It's more about how the boat is equipped and setup. For example....

On the 46ft the mainsail was hard to handle for two crew with slab reefing. Replaced by mainsail boom furling on the new boat which is easily to managed by one person in the cockpit.

Anchor windlass has a control near the helm station to make anchoring mainly a one person operation from the helm.

Replaced conventional jib by self-tacking jib. Now there is no work to execute a tack at all!

No increase in difficulty in stern-to mooring. The boat is kept in place by the boats on either side, protected from the wind, once you get the stern in far enough. One crew member attends to the pick up line leading to the bow line(s). The helmsman controls the distance off the quay. The only exception to this is if the gap between two lines of boats is narrow when you turn in. In this case you need to take care not to catch the bowthruster on the bow lines of the boats on the opposite side to the quay where you are mooring.

Watermaker eliminates need to go to marinas to fill up with water.

On the downside, the increased freeboard requires putting out a fender step in port, but it's a dryer boat at sea due to the higher freeboard. Also, larger boats have more complex systems and more things can go wrong.

For me, the main issue with more LOA would be being able to get into marinas, when you need to, without booking. I think with 55ft LOA this will still be OK. I see plenty of 55ft boats moored stern to with 45ft-60ft boats in the Med.

Thanks, all good advice and noted. The beneteau 55.1 I am looking at has all the above with the exception of boom furling she has inmast. Also you have helped in my concerns regarding stern to mooring.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

I have seen fairly new boats for sale in this LOA and the reason stated is it was too big for their owners which is making me wonder if there is some cut off point for a couple.

That may be translated into ‘it costs too much to maintain’, ‘I’m too old to wax it anymore’, etc... who knows...

The first time the captain told me to dock the 250 ft. Coast Guard cutter I served on, it also seemed too big but with a little experience, most people can manage it comfortably. On the plus side, you clearly have the experience to ask this question indicating you already know the issue(s).

As they say, “size matters”

[Haddock1]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

A boat is "too big" when single-handing her causes you occasional frights under your normal sailing conditions and relying on her gear as fitted, e.g. when you begin to fill you knickers having to dock her in a strange marina. Space considerations such as the number of cabins are NOT relevant.

You can develop that theme for yourself :-)

As you gain experience you can 'move up" to larger boats, in step with your increasing ability to keep both your boat handling evolutions and your knickers tidy.

TrentePieds.

I do think space is relevant when long term cruising, anyway it is for my wife and I. There are many advantages with a larger yacht the cockpit area, space below, being able to dress with out being Harry Houdini and spare cabins (I have three daughters!). But you do hit the point which is your ability and confidence in boat handling only comes with experience and you can only get that by having a larger boat to do it with. I can now manage my 46 foot boat comfortably in most conditions, however, when I first had her I filled my pants regularly. Also I would challenge any skipper that their is no increase in anxiety when visiting a new marina for the first time (or may be this is just me).

[stormalong]

For me the decision to go bigger would be ability to handle the boat when the SHTF and the complexity of the systems on board. Reefing, handling the boat in rough weather,dependency on electric winches to handle the loads are a big factor. As complexity goes up so does maintenance.

Can you afford professional maintenance or DIY? If you plan to cruise will you be able to fix things in remote places with limited parts and labor availability?

[Dooglas]

I thought that tkeithlu hit this one on the head. A boat is too big when its regular crew (in this case, a 60 year old couple) are unable to handle it in the conditions it will routinely encounter. That definitely means handling in heavy weather, docking in challenging conditions, emergency repairs, dealing with a man overboard situation, and the like.

Surely everyone runs up against their limits at some point. That is why some transition to powerboats. That is why others rely on crewed charters. This is, of course, a personal judgement. It is important, however, to remind yourself that the well being of others (including those kids you mentioned) is at stake.

[Haddock1]

Originally Posted by stormalong

For me the decision to go bigger would be ability to handle the boat when the SHTF and the complexity of the systems on board. Reefing, handling the boat in rough weather,dependency on electric winches to handle the loads are a big factor. As complexity goes up so does maintenance.

Can you afford professional maintenance or DIY? If you plan to cruise will you be able to fix things in remote places with limited parts and labor availability?

To keep my cruising in context it is western Med and only short hops between island (max 2 days at sea) and always look for a good weather window. Most places I go there is always a man with oily rag to talk to. I am fortunate to be able to afford hiring professionals for maintenance. I am also reasonably adept at fixing things on the hoof. These types of issues I see as part of the "joy" of sailing and not necessarily related to the size of your vessel.

[Cadence]

To big is when you can afford the boat but not the maintenance and moorage.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Cadence

To big is when you can afford the boat but not the maintenance and moorage.

If you can afford the costs, but you can't handle the boat - you had better be able to afford paid crew.

[captmikem]

I think size is a real grey area. I started cruising on a 26’ Columbia without an engine… It was a bit small.

I took an Alden 54 across the Atlantic, thru the Med, and back to the US most of the time just the two of us (my wife) and it seemed the ideal size for a couple.

I then took an 80’ Frers around the world with my wife, and it seemed the ideal size. Both these boats had traditional rigs, roller furling headsails (both were cutters) full batten mains with jiffy (slab) reefing all lines led to the base of the mast. We flew chutes whenever possible (the poles on the 80’ were carbon fiber so they were manageable). The 54 had a couple of electric winches and the 80’ had mostly hydraulic winches.

I then finished the building of a 154 ketch. She was a beautiful boat but took a crew of 4 to sail, and the in-boom furling was a nightmare. All the winches were hydraulic and the halyard winches on drums in the bilge. She was 200’ on the mainmast and drew 14’. She was too big for cruising IMHO.

After getting divorced I then had an HR 38, Then a KP 46. The KP 46 is a great boat for a single hander or a couple, comfortable offshore boat. I was happy with both.

Size a relative thing, and I think you have to go a long ways to find something “Too Big”.

M

[Chotu]

Nothing is too big. If you have a good system to manage the sails, like electric winches and have thrusters for docking.

My 50ft boat is much easier to sail than most of my previous boats. All the way down to a 30ft boat.

Wrap a sheet, step on a button and the sail adjusts easily. In mast furling makes it a snap to increase or decrease main sail area. Roller furlers so the same for both headsails.

The bigger the better at sea. Smoother ride, more speed, generally a better experience.

[Haddock1]

Originally Posted by captmikem

I think size is a real grey area. I started cruising on a 26’ Columbia without an engine… It was a bit small.

I took an Alden 54 across the Atlantic, thru the Med, and back to the US most of the time just the two of us (my wife) and it seemed the ideal size for a couple.

I then took an 80’ Frers around the world with my wife, and it seemed the ideal size. Both these boats had traditional rigs, roller furling headsails (both were cutters) full batten mains with jiffy (slab) reefing all lines led to the base of the mast. We flew chutes whenever possible (the poles on the 80’ were carbon fiber so they were manageable). The 54 had a couple of electric winches and the 80’ had mostly hydraulic winches.

I then finished the building of a 154 ketch. She was a beautiful boat but took a crew of 4 to sail, and the in-boom furling was a nightmare. All the winches were hydraulic and the halyard winches on drums in the bilge. She was 200’ on the mainmast and drew 14’. She was too big for cruising IMHO.

After getting divorced I then had an HR 38, Then a KP 46. The KP 46 is a great boat for a single hander or a couple, comfortable offshore boat. I was happy with both.

Size a relative thing, and I think you have to go a long ways to find something “Too Big”.

M

I am humbled to receive your response Captain Mike. What adventures you must have had of which I am immensely envious. You have truly owned some magnificent vessels and, if anything, you have now cemented my desire to go large (relatively speaking) as have many of the responses to my question. Whilst I am nowhere near your level of experience or yacht ownership I now feel emboldened by your achievements. Whilst my experience is limited I do feel confident to take on more of a challenge both in terms of boat size and cruising area. Perhaps a circumnavigation before the grim reaper comes a knocking?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

If you can afford the costs, but you can't handle the boat - you had better be able to afford paid crew.

That's a little large. I think many people fall victim to underestimating up keep. Let alone those paying a note.

[ohthetrees]

My wife and I are planning on living full-time on our boat, with our two kids. We’d like to host guests from time to time. So we wanted the biggest, most comfortable boat possible. My wife and I just bought a 50 footer (Hanse 505). We felt that was the biggest we could confidently handle just the two of us in all conditions. The kids are a few years from being assets in difficult situations. We are both fit and in our early 40s.

I’m sure you are well aware, but the volume really goes up with length rapidly. We chartered a number of boats to get the feel. Here’s how I read it for modern plastic boats:

40’ Good interior living space for 4, very constrained on storage (shallow cockpit lockers, no sail locker)

45’ upgrades to generous living space OR generous storage

50’ at this length we get good living space AND generous storage.

I’m sure 55’ would feel even more generous below, but then so many things become too difficult if you have electric/hydraulic failures, and marina expenses jump above 50’.

Couple of additional things... when I am standing below in a 50 footer, I can see out the cabin windows, which I like. Bigger boats feel more cave like to me, because all the windows are above my line of sight. In bigger boats to, the main salon goes from feeling roomy to wasteful in terms of volume.

I guess I’m recommending you tour some 50’ boats and see what you think of them. I really think that is the sweet spot for a couple.

[SteveSadler]

We bought a Jeanneau 49 DS 5 yrs ago in Croatia. I was impressed how easy it was to sail and maneuver in tight quarters. My ego wants a 60'- 70' boat but the limiting factors are sail handling, money and the extra systems needing maintenance. In mast furling is the biggest improvement for short handed sailing, making reefing an easy one person task. Tacking the 135 genoa isn't too bad, but electric winches would make it easy. Modern monos are very close winded, and we enjoy that aspect immensely.
It came as a 4 cabin, but we claimed the 2 frwds for our stateroom, with the 2 afts for guests and toys. The huge sail locker fwrd hides all other gear
We anchor where ever we please, limited only by draft,(7'2"), but for privacy we prefer more open space. We carry a 12' rib/ 20 hp, tow it everywhere except overnighters, when it has chocks frwd. We pick it up with a halyard with all gear in it, but an electric winch would be nice.
I turned down the offer of a training sail but regret it. I would have learned a lot about the systems, especially the furling main which needs to be furled a certain way, and multiple pointers that I learned from my mistakes.
Bear in mind the next size up was a 54DS, but it weighs and costs 50% more, but only 10% more sail area, making it slower in light winds.
The short answer is don't hesitate to get a B55, but hire a captain to run thru sailing, docking and systems, so you are both familiar and confident in your skills.

[OS2Dude]

A boat is too big when you can't handle her. Varies from situation to situation. Crew? Health/Strength/Vision? Resources for berthing and maintenance?