When is a boat too big?

[David B]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Until it jams.

When will that be then?

They can jam when the sail is badly stretched, they can jam when they are not rolled correctly, they can jam when not maintained.

There are some nasty furlers out there, but from my readings and research, Selden is the pick.

I never chose it - came with the boat as a last opportunity to buy that model new.

So glad it did now.

In eight years, ours has never jammed.

I guess one could say I'm speaking from experience ……….

[David B]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Gosh, I sailed a Beneteau Oceanis 50 for several weeks and would never have described that boat as easy to single-hand. Does your boat have considerable equipment and rigging to support single-handing?

Well we have a furling genoa - as most do these days, so nothing special there.
We have in-mast furling main - that makes life very easy.
We have one secondary winch powered - use it for furling the main, and sometimes the genoa (plus getting me up the mast, and getting the tender up on deck).
The bow thruster is the other big thing - would not be without that either.

To give you an idea, the last time was a time I had no choice. It had been my First Mates birthday the previous day, and lovely as it was, the dinner that night they tried to kill her. Totally written off - could not function at all with food poisoning. Trouble was we had an appointment with a yard for hauling, and the yard was down the coast from Porto Montenegro.

Engine on, check forward and reverse OK, check port and starboard bow thruster OK. Into forward, drop bow lines, back at cockpit into neutral, ease stern lines, blip in forward, ease off a bit more from the dock. Into neutral, pull in stern lines, into forward, ease out of berth, reverse back a bit in fairway, stb thrust around, out, and (keeping an eye everywhere for boats coming and going) out through the breakwater and down the coast.

I had called the yard to advise I had no help handling the lines, so they were ready with a boathook either side of the travel lift dock. Reversed in at an angle to counter the 20-25knts, then kicked the stern into place with the bow thruster once the pivot point was right. Then they held in place while the slings came up.

Can't say I was relaxed, but it was all fine.

As to better situations where we are actually sailing, I often just do it all.
Autopiliot on, winch out main, winch out genoa, trim and that's it - same in reverse.

I don't think I mentioned the autopilot in my list - also would not be without.

We had another situation where medication didn't work for my First Mate, and she became very ill the first night of a two day passage in the middle of a very messy, very confused sea (it even affected me if I stayed down below for more than 5 minutes at a time, and days later people were coming in relating similar experiences). Anyway, the autopilot was great - held course and enabled me to stay on watch for the 22 hours I needed to divert to a closer port (or my First Mate would have been on an IV line for dehydration …).

So breaking it down, yes, it is all quite doable, and with two us it is really, really a breeze (and despite the episodes of sea sickness, my lady loves the sailing life).

[boatman61]

When you need a bicycle to get to the bow..

[Haddock1]

Thanks David,

I like you have a wife who is very keen on the boating life (more on the destination than the passage truth be told).

Like you I do most if not all the sailing single handed except for watches even then I sleep in the cockpit and any concerns she may have I get a poke in the ribs.

Take on board your list of recommendations and had most of them covered already. Totally agree on the solar and have an integrated push pit arrangement on an arch on my current boat giving over 600 watts. Hope to increase this to 1000 watts on the new boat given the larger beam.

Will go for full electric everything to make life easy.

Take on board copper-coat but where I am there is extreme nutrients in the water (Ebro Delta) and I tend to haul and anti-foul each year just before the start of the season. However, if we decide to leave our marina and not return I thinks this is a good option.

I have considered the 50.1 (Wife and I got very excited at the Southampton boat show) and almost place an order for a new one but after research and having friends who have purchased new boats the tales of wow, I have decided on a used boat 1 or 2 years old with low hours on the premiss they have taken all the commissioning pain and the initial free fall depreciation.

Not sure on the teak decks. I have them currently and whilst they are good to look at they take at least 2 or 3 days a season to clean and then Semco which is a bugger if you get it on the grp.

Anyway thanks again and once more you have confirmed that I am making the right decision.

Mike

[boom23]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Until it jams.

I would not trade my Amel in-mast furling system for anything... I can do everything, on my own, from the safety of my covered cockpit.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Until it jams.

Mostly as a result of operator error, just like manual roller furling.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Exile

Mostly as a result of operator error, just like manual roller furling.

Yeah, but they can be prone to operator error, and sail stretch issues.

Without, while shape may not be so great, a stretched mainsail can be used safely.

With in mast furling a stretched mainsail cannot be used safely.

In my experience, an in mast furled mainsail should be replaced
in 10 years or 2000 hours use, whatever comes first.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Yeah, but they can be prone to operator error, and sail stretch issues.

Without, while shape may not be so great, a stretched mainsail can be used safely.

With in mast furling a stretched mainsail cannot be used safely.

In my experience, an in mast furled mainsail should be replaced
in 10 years or 2000 hours use, whatever comes first.

Mine is long overdue then. And when I bought the boat 12 years ago I removed the vertical battens and had the mainsail recut. It's terribly bagged out now & needs replacement. But the Hood Stoway furler only ever jammed in the early days when I didn't understand how to operate it. Now it hasn't jammed in years. I read similarly positive reviews about the Selden's.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Exile

Mine is long overdue then. And when I bought the boat 12 years ago I removed the vertical battens and had the mainsail recut. It's terribly bagged out now & needs replacement. But the Hood Stoway furler only ever jammed in the early days when I didn't understand how to operate it. Now it hasn't jammed in years. I read similarly positive reviews about the Selden's.

Yeah, I know people who have them and love them, and I know people who had them and hated them.

It only takes being caught in a blow once, and jammed half way, unable to furl in or out.

My experience with them is when I get called after they have jammed. Generally the solution is spend a few hours to work it out and then get a new sail.

But I wouldn’t personally choose one, for the same reason I wouldn’t choose A foresail furler with an enclosed fueling drum; if it jams up, just too hard to get at.

I am surprised behind mast furling isn’t more popular. I have no personal experience with this and perhaps the issue is just too much turbulence before the luff.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatman61

When you need a bicycle to get to the bow..

Or the boat has 2 zip or area codes

[slap]

When is a boat too big? When you can't afford to write the checks!

[hpeer]

About curling mains.

A couple of years ago I briefly considered curling mains so I did a bit of reading on them. I decided it was not for us, made the decision and forgot most of the argument.

What little I do recall was that beyond the issue of reliability, which many argued was a non-issue with certain modern systems, was that the furling required some serious compromises as to sail shape and that as you reefed the shape got worse and worse. Each solution, in-boom, in-mast and behind the mast had their own problems. IIRC (Never a sure thing) a lot of the discussion had to do with retaining out haul tension when reefed and the lack of battens in vertical systems. The arguments were sufficiently compelling that they turned me off the idea.

I’ve no dog in this fight, just thought I would mention it.

We have a 44’er with a 5’ bow sprit so an effective 49’ sail plan, very heavy boat, heavy cloth. The main can be a challenge.

Lazy jacks
Tides Marine plastic sail track
Low friction eyes for the reef cringles
A 3rd reef point
Milwaukee right angle drill with winch bit
Learning how to reef better, marking reef points on halyards and reef lines

All these things have made the main easier to handle. It’s still work and done at the mast, but better.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

Thanks David,

I like you have a wife who is very keen on the boating life (more on the destination than the passage truth be told).

Like you I do most if not all the sailing single handed except for watches even then I sleep in the cockpit and any concerns she may have I get a poke in the ribs.

Take on board your list of recommendations and had most of them covered already. Totally agree on the solar and have an integrated push pit arrangement on an arch on my current boat giving over 600 watts. Hope to increase this to 1000 watts on the new boat given the larger beam.

Will go for full electric everything to make life easy.

Take on board copper-coat but where I am there is extreme nutrients in the water (Ebro Delta) and I tend to haul and anti-foul each year just before the start of the season. However, if we decide to leave our marina and not return I thinks this is a good option.

I have considered the 50.1 (Wife and I got very excited at the Southampton boat show) and almost place an order for a new one but after research and having friends who have purchased new boats the tales of wow, I have decided on a used boat 1 or 2 years old with low hours on the premiss they have taken all the commissioning pain and the initial free fall depreciation.

Not sure on the teak decks. I have them currently and whilst they are good to look at they take at least 2 or 3 days a season to clean and then Semco which is a bugger if you get it on the grp.

Anyway thanks again and once more you have confirmed that I am making the right decision.

Mike

Mike just quickly - we Semco once a year. On a 50' it takes around three man-hours. During the winter we have a full cover over the boat. Wiping off Semco when wet, just a rag. If you miss any and it dries, just a little thinners or even turpentine.

As for Coppercoat, the biggest test we put it to was in North Africa. Nice marina, but no pump-out station, and quite a few live-aboards, plus effectively no tidal movement. The boats around us had some nasty hard fouling on the hulls. We left ours there for a full year. When we returned, there was just some 'mud' around the waterline that fell off when you brushed your hand past it. Suggest get a kit and try it on something over the side.

New vs used - we bought new, and yes there were a number of teething problems but don't regret buying new. Still if you can find someone selling only 1-2 years old, then unless they are getting rid of a lemon, why not.

1000W of solar sounds nice by the way!

Finally, Karen does really enjoy sailing - loves it, and does night watches no problem, but does not enjoy rough weather. Can't say I go looking for it either.

[Group9]

Here is one other thing to consider.

We cruise on a 42 footer. I find, that when we are starting out on a cruise, after a break, and I have kind of lost my skills, the size of the boat seems very daunting, when docking or operating in close quarters.

But, by the end of the cruise, my skills are polished again, and I am docking, and maneuvering in tight spaces with that sucker as easy as I dock my 22 center console.

[ramblinrod]

We find changing to a new boat can be a very humbling experience (up and down in size).

We have a fair bit of experience (more than many, less than some) and have found that it takes us about 2 seasons to become "in tune", with a new (to us) vessel.

By "in tune" I mean highly confident in knowing precisely what our actions should be, and when, and exactly how the boat will respond, in various conditions.

This can be very humbling, after being so "in tune" with the prior boat.

I am looking forward to being "humbled" in 2020, as we start to become "in tune" with "Onalee".

Based on prior experience, I predict the early part of 2020 to be a $#!+ show, and feeling like a newbie all over again (for the 4th time), but by the end of 2021, she should feel like an integral part of our extended souls.