When is a boat too big?

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Thrusters are never as powerful as they need to be when conditions deteriorate. If you become dependent on them in benign conditions you'll have trouble when they aren't enough.

This should be printed in bold and repeated many times. Yes, thrusters are fun and handy in tight situations, but they should never be relied upon. It’s not hard to manoeuvre a 50-odd foot boat without a thruster (unless it’s an old full-keel boat, which probably doesn’t have one anyway). In a significant cross-wind or other situation where it would be impossible to get into a particular slip without one, then it’s just the wrong slip to be aiming for. Wait for the wind to change, or go somewhere else temporarily or permanently.

The same applies to electric winches. If you absolutely need them in order to operate your boat, then it’s likely the boat is “too big’’ for you. Electric winches are lovely, and very nice to have, and very useful. But I would never want to sail a boat where complete electrical failure was anything more than slightly inconvenient. Expect failure and be ready for it, but then enjoy it when it works.

[Oliver]

As has been said, there is no one answer. I grew up sailing and ocean racing. When the time came to look for a big boat for extended cruising/ living aboard I chartered several boats trying to satisfy my wife's requirement for space that included a galley big enough for daily meal prep and an island berth. The last boat I chartered was a Swan 65.

It turned out to be too big. Not because of the size but because of sail handl9ing. The mainsail was so heavy that the owner had sized the main halyard long enough to go to the anchor windlass! The 50-lb anchor carried on deck was too much to handle.
For an older couple sailing without crew, I strongly recommend a stow away main in addition to roller furling headsail plus powered primary winches. Even if you are the one grinding, tacking and trimming in any sort of a blow can be exhaustive.
Good luck. Let us know what you end up buying.
I solved the problem by purchasing a Hatteras 58 MY. It gave us 10 years of cruising comfort between New England, Fl and the Bahamas.

Oliver Moore

[blazing928]

Re single handed docking.

Look up Patrick Laine in youtube.

He always single hands his boat. Technique to dock is bow in, fender in front, put bow on dock, turn rudder over, in forward gear, this holds boat against dock, step off and secure lines.

Similar to setting a spring line and holding boat against dock with motor, forward or reverse depending on the spring. I dock our power boat this way on my own.
Even if wind blows you off finger, with enough fenders you can just lay up on the next boat and then warp lines across. Do it gently and there is no damage.

[Oliver]

If you have sail handling issues solved then I wouldn't be worried about the size. Handling a boat in the 50-60 foot range is no problem for two people.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I agree that size limits are driven as much by crew experience and ability as the boat. For context I usually have four crew on delivery; I have moved boats up to about 80' short distances (less than 24 hours).

In my view there are two related issues as boats get larger: 1. more and more detailed planning further ahead and 2. recognition that things do go wrong.

The statements that modern in-mast furling don't jam is simply wrong. The important and interesting discussion is what to do when they do. Powered winches are great until you have a battery bank meltdown (figurative not literal). What is your plan? Windlass failure? What is your plan? Think ahead. You won't think of everything, but the practice of considering responses to failure modes is good when something happens you weren't expecting.

Never be too proud to go around and try again. Stand off and reconsider when what you see is different from what you expect.

Thrusters are never as powerful as they need to be when conditions deteriorate. If you become dependent on them in benign conditions you'll have trouble when they aren't enough.



*sigh* Photovoltaic (PV) solar is a great component of an energy management solution. However they are NOT either green or renewable. Mining, manufacturing, and ultimate disposal are poisonous to the planet. Dependence on rare earths and other minerals is not renewable. Until we have a 100 kW micro nuclear generator we are stuck with PV solar but should not kid ourselves that there is not an adverse footprint. Carbon is better than diesel (still not zero and not as good as nuclear) but other poisons are really bad.

Nuclear power generation better?

Only in a politicians dreams.

The public will have cheap electricity when I’m in office; the resultant radio-active waste that will cost 100 times more to deal with than the value of the power it generated will be the problem of those after me.

IMHO nuclear power generation, is the absolute worst idea mankind has ever come up with.

[Ghostrider421]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

I am considering moving up in hull length from a 46 footer (sense 46) to a wide beam 55 footer (beneteau 55.1). The reason for the upgrade is our current vessel only has two cabins and I need more (for the kids when visiting) and secondly, my wife and I am about to retire (60 next birthday) and will be spending most of the year on board and we feel we need a bit more space as this will be our home from home.

I grew up on sailboats and found I didn't need as much space as I thought I did and still be comfortable. I've built BIG 30m sailboats and half the time the people sailing on them didn't use most of the space. With a 51 you get a bigger engine, even though it won't be much faster than your 46. Bigger engine - more fuel it needs. You'll still need a watermaker unless you plan on carrying 2000ltrs around with you.
You'll get more of everything with a 40-44ft sailing catamaran.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Nuclear power generation better?

Only in a politicians dreams.

The public will have cheap electricity when I’m in office; the resultant radio-active waste that will cost 100 times more to deal with than the value of the power it generated will be the problem of those after me.

IMHO nuclear power generation, is the absolute worst idea mankind has ever come up with.

Hopefully our great great grand kids will have figured out a way to use the nuclear waste. Hell of an thing to leave, that or a polluted environment from fossil fuels. I know, solar and wind are the answers. Not our lifetimes, at least not mine.
What a drift.

[SteveSadler]

I agree with Joli
It's not that hard. Get some practice and sail on!

[Ghostrider421]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Hopefully our great great grand kids will have figured out a way to use the nuclear waste. Hell of an thing to leave, that or a polluted environment from fossil fuels. I know, solar and wind are the answers. Not our lifetimes, at least not mine.
What a drift.

Are you kidding me? We are still finding armament and waste on our beaches from WWII, not to mention mass graves and those who were interred from mustard gas and others from diseases. As parts of tundra melt - not related to global but localised warming, some of those diseases are returning. The sun is cooling and solar isn't even considered anymore. Wind power is all that is left.

[Wolfgang.Schau]

Have you considered a catamaran?
We switched from a 38' mono hull to a 41' catamaran (Lipari 41) which has 3 cabins, a lot of space in the bridge between the hulls and a power winch to handle the mighty main. You have your privacy in the master cabin while the kids have their cabins on the other hull with its own bathroom and shower.

With two engines it is super easy to handle even in tight marinas. It is very stable on anchorage, etc. I have sailed it single-handed thousands of miles.

We love it and would never go back to a mono hull!

Charter one and you will fall in love. There is reason why many boats in the Caribbean are catamarans.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider421

Are you kidding me? We are still finding armament and waste on our beaches from WWII, not to mention mass graves and those who were interred from mustard gas and others from diseases. As parts of tundra melt - not related to global but localised warming, some of those diseases are returning. The sun is cooling and solar isn't even considered anymore. Wind power is all that is left.

I have no idea what mustard gas and a cooling sun has to do with my post? If you feel it relevant to when is a boat too big? I'll admit to have gone off base from the OP's question.

[rjgretz]

as far as 55' boats go My wife and I have had a SENSE 55 for several years that we keep in Annapolis,
the 2 of us have no trouble handling the sails, maneuvering in and out of tight marinas etc. and really enjoy the space on board....
So I'd say go for it!

[MicHughV]

boat length is not a "true" indicator of boat " size"....
a 55' may only be 10' longer than a 45', but the reality is that it is " twice" the boat, when you factor in the volume, displacement, etc, this typically means much, much bigger engine...lots more bottom paint, bigger everything...etc

..like others have suggested here...spend some time on a " bigger" boat and then make your decision...

...my own personal take on the matter is when the doodoo hits the fan. ie, should you run aground, trying to get a 55' of the sand bar will be infinitely more challenging than a 45' and the list goes on....

Finally, a particular beef of mine, is slip size....most marina's can accommodate a 45' without a problem, but a 55' may find itself on the end of a T-dock, the fuel dock or other isolated difficult to get in..and out spot..

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by rjgretz

as far as 55' boats go My wife and I have had a SENSE 55 for several years that we keep in Annapolis,
the 2 of us have no trouble handling the sails, maneuvering in and out of tight marinas etc. and really enjoy the space on board....
So I'd say go for it!

It will also depend upon the age of the boat. You only have to read yachting magazines now compared with twenty years ago and you’ll see that back then 40+ feet was considered “big”, but now that’s more like the high 50s. You will find that a boat of 50+ feet that’s 20 years old or more was rarely expected to be sailed by a couple, and may not be set up for that. Modern 55-footers are very much designed to be single-handed or couple sailed.

[simonhantler]

Originally Posted by dcarratt

I upgraded from an X-yachts X-46 (46ft) to an X4.9 (50ft) about 18 months ago and sailed her, mainly double handed, from Denmark to Barcelona over two seasons. We bought the new boat specifically to sail as we get older and to lower the physical workload. I'm 65 and my long distance crew member is 72. The increase in LOA makes a big difference to comfort at sea. The new boat is a lot stiffer as well - so it's a much more comfortable ride overall. I don't think increase in LOA, on its own, makes a lot of difference to manageability. It's more about how the boat is equipped and setup. For example....

On the 46ft the mainsail was hard to handle for two crew with slab reefing. Replaced by mainsail boom furling on the new boat which is easily to managed by one person in the cockpit.

Anchor windlass has a control near the helm station to make anchoring mainly a one person operation from the helm.

Replaced conventional jib by self-tacking jib. Now there is no work to execute a tack at all!

No increase in difficulty in stern-to mooring. The boat is kept in place by the boats on either side, protected from the wind, once you get the stern in far enough. One crew member attends to the pick up line leading to the bow line(s). The helmsman controls the distance off the quay. The only exception to this is if the gap between two lines of boats is narrow when you turn in. In this case you need to take care not to catch the bowthruster on the bow lines of the boats on the opposite side to the quay where you are mooring.

Watermaker eliminates need to go to marinas to fill up with water.

On the downside, the increased freeboard requires putting out a fender step in port, but it's a dryer boat at sea due to the higher freeboard. Also, larger boats have more complex systems and more things can go wrong.

For me, the main issue with more LOA would be being able to get into marinas, when you need to, without booking. I think with 55ft LOA this will still be OK. I see plenty of 55ft boats moored stern to with 45ft-60ft boats in the Med.

I’m interested in your in boom furling system. I’m thinking of the same. What brand, any problems, easy to get used to?