Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by river251

After that, in my opinion, the argument that a monohull is fine after a knockdown or a roll is ludicrous. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. I know that was a rare storm but knockdowns are not that rare from what I've read.

Knockdowns are not that rare but roll-overs are. But a knockdown is really a non-event and hardly life threatening. And in a roll-over the chances of the rig surviving are even more rare, probably not even possible. If the boat is going to survive, the rig must be cut free with delay. It is the rig that will sink the boat.

A roll-over in a Cat has often seen the cat continuing to float but upside down. Several reports indicate this condition can continue for days and even weeks. But reality is it’s never coming back up. And I’ve got to be honest - being/living inside an inverted cat waiting for rescue, not knowing if or when it’s going to sink, is not appealing. Living on top of an inverted cat, just as unappealing.

Having said that, the usable lifespan of a life raft can also be measured in days. They’re not intended for long term survival and there are reports of people falling through the floor of their life raft after a number of days. If you’re not likely to be rescued quickly, survival becomes tenuous at best. And then there is the spectre of the liferaft being rolled as well . . . .

I’d rather take my chances on the monohull I’m sailing staying afloat until rescue. There are many reports of monos being found weeks and months after being abandoned at sea and while it’s floating, it is safe to live aboard. I’m OK with that possibility.

[smj]

Chances of a monohull getting knocked down is much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull rolling 360 degrees is also much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull sinking is about equal to a catamaran flipping.

[river251]

Originally Posted by Lazy1

If your circumstances allow, just get a trailer sailor and get out there, you don't have to buy your last boat first and you are losing time flattening the learning curve.


I have no regrets coming to that conclusion. Maybe you have already done this but I don't know

When I saw your post, I immediately jumped online and searched for trailer sailboats. Lo and behold, there was a 21-ft in nice shape with trailer for $2,500 just 2 hours away on elephant Butte lake. Oh boy I was excited. I called the number but the number didn't work. Huh . So I looked back at the ad . 2011. Pooh. but I will keep an eye out for one for sale between me and Galveston or Houston. Thank you for the tip maybe I can get in the water in less than a year or two on my own boat. Not an ocean sailing boat but for that much money who cares. thank you!

[river251]

Thanks Don!

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by Jammer

1. Higher overall cost profile
   1. Used market is much tighter
   2. New prices are higher due to cost of manufacture
   3. Because of the wide beam, there are fewer low-cost choices for slips and haulout
   4. Cost of maintaining two engines and saildrives
2. In practice, upwind performance is slightly worse
   1. When comparing performance cruiser monos, to performance cruiser cats, as typically outfittted.
   2. Adds to the risk posed by lee shores
3. They aren't as seaworthy.
   1. Odds of hitting something or catching a line are doubled by the twin hulls.
   2. They are more highly engineered, and engineering failures are occurring at greater rates than with monos
      1. Inversions due to undiscovered holes in the stability envelope
      2. Emergency hatch leaks
      3. Structural failures
   3. They are more susceptible to serious damage when a collision does occur
      1. By example, e.g. the family that hit a fish trap in the Med
      2. Due to reliance on saildrives (in nearly all cases), with attendant line-trap and collision risks.
   4. Generally not able to motor on one engine, therefore, twice the risk of a problems from engine failure.
4. There is some slamming on the waves in heavy seas.
   1. Due to the bridge deck hitting the water.
   2. Alarming to the uninitiated. Undermines the advantage of being friendly to non-sailors
5. Limited weight carrying ability
   1. Limits tankage
   2. Limits ability to carry dive gear and compressors
   3. Leads to tradeoffs regarding emergency equipment and spares
   4. Undermines some of the benefit of the extra space
6. Wider beam limits where they can go in some cases
   1. Some notable, historic inland rivers and canals
      1. Broads bridges
      2. Canal du midi
   2. Reduced availability of slips particularly in the USA

A great list but one that you did not mention is that every Cat I have seen (and I am hoping to be proven wrong on this) has a deck stepped mast. I consider this a significant disadvantage - perhaps influenced by the fact that my monohull was struck by a falling Catamaran mast while moored in Barcelona. See linked image. It took out all my masthead gear and caused me injury. The crew were "prepping to cross the Atlantic". Nuff said.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...cture32173.jpg

[Martkimwat]

Any boat, mono or catamaran can end up being rolled if the wave is big enough and breaking. A boat that stays upside down is as much use as a chocolate teapot. Unless you have one of those silly boats with detachable keels a la Cheeky Raffiki, your monohull will right itself even if the rig comes down (which can happen on a cat as well) Talk of monos sinking because of flying batteries etc can happen in Cats as well, If your fittings are well found and fitted correctly it shouldn't happen on either boat. In the end, and in extremis, do want an upside down boat or a boat that can right itself?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Martkimwat

do want an upside down boat or a boat that can right itself?

I think you meant, so that the statistics agree, “do you want an upside down boat or a boat that sinks after being rolled?”

Monos get knocked down much more often than cats. Monos get rolled more often than cats get flipped. Monos get knocked down or rolled, and sink, about as often as cats sink or flip or flip and sink.

So the cat flipping as a reason not to get a cat is pretty much the same as a mono flooding and sinking being a reason not to get a mono. It can happen to both, but in a cruising context neither is likely. For every example of a flipped (and/or sinking) cat we can point to several examples of sinking monos. Why bother with this argument anymore?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by river251

(...) After that, in my opinion, the argument that a monohull is fine after a knockdown or a roll is ludicrous. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. (...)

Cruising monos are vastly dangerous in knock downs. They always carry (inside and out) too much stuff. This stuff starts flying, damaging more stuff, and people. Also most cruising monos lack safe watertight entry. Once the boat gets flooded, crews' spirit tends to sink (faster than the boat, in fact).



Racing monos are built, and kept, to take a wipe-out in their stride. Also racers are way more fit than cruisers.


This is to say if you think your chances of getting a bad wipe out are high, get a racing-quality design, keep her light and uncluttered, and stay fit. A monkey will hang on to anything but a pig will fly.


b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I think you meant, so that the statistics agree, “do you want an upside down boat or a boat that sinks after being rolled?”


(...)

Thissssss ...


+1!

[Lazy1]

There is an outside chance that people buy what they like?

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I think you meant, so that the statistics agree, “do you want an upside down boat or a boat that sinks after being rolled?”

I think your point -that monohulls sink with similar probability that multihulls flip- is very compelling. But I wonder if these stats are normalized by the respective amount of each type presently sailing?

[smj]

Originally Posted by chris95040

I think your point -that monohulls sink with similar probability that multihulls flip- is very compelling. But I wonder if these stats are normalized by the respective amount of each type presently sailing?

According to the insurance companies I’ve talked to, they’ve figured close to equal risk.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by river251

Every time I notice it, there are twice as many people reading the monohulls forum as reading the multihulls forum. I am really curious about this. Cats have what everyone wants, supposedly....no rolling (youtubers Kevin Boothby and Patrick Lane constantly talk about how tiring and unpleasant this is), things stay put, relatively more room. A non-tilted, non-rolling, roomy lifestyle. So what is the attraction of monohulls?

It can't just be cost or that everyone is waiting til they have enough money saved to sell their mono and get a cat. There are good older cats available for not that much more than decent older monos. Or am I wrong, it's the cost?

Two years of reading threads and watching videos and I still don't get it.

Thanks.

I have had 2 cats-- just went mono again. Cat is kinda lika raft which sails sideways,,,lol

[smj]

Originally Posted by geoleo

I have had 2 cats-- just went mono again. Cat is kinda lika raft which sails sideways,,,lol

I’d suggest sailing lessons! LOL

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by smj

Chances of a monohull getting knocked down is much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull rolling 360 degrees is also much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull sinking is about equal to a catamaran flipping.

I'm wondering where you found this surprising statistic? Or, did you just make it up?

360 degree rolls are exceedingly rare outside of very high latitude sailing and very high latitude sailing isn't a common practice amongst the sailing community. Catamaran flipping is also rare, but we keep seeing examples posted (and I know you hate that because you invariably have scathing replies to such posts). With this highly unscientific argument I question that chances of a mono doing a 360 roll are "MUCH HIGHER" than a cat flipping.

Your other statements are likely accurate: mono knockdowns are more common than cat flipping... yep, definitely true. Mono sinkings equal to cat flipping... possibly true, especially if you include sinkings while moored due to equipment failures.

But really, making one's boat buying decisions on the basis of such very rare catastrophes is a mugs game. Most sailors will never experience conditions where either monos or catamarans are at risk of sinking/rolling/flipping so why base one's choice on a dubious interpretation of a very very small risk?

Jim