Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[double u]

"... multihull experience: soaking wet trying to right a HobieCat..."
aahh, the voice of reason & experience

[smj]

Kinda reminds me of the Ford vs Chevy debate when we were kids. When most of us grew up we realized both Ford and Chevy put out different models to appeal to different buyers. We also realized that though we prefer one brand the other was probably ok as well, just not to our taste. Either way we all thanked god we never owned a Pacer or Gremlin.
I have little to no interest in either full keeled monohulls or charter specific catamarans. If I were to own a monohull it would be performance oriented, like a Pogo. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with a full keel mono or a chartered oriented cat, just not my cup of tea.

[tdunlap]

They are fine, until you find yourself short handed (like a crew of two), are tired, and you're in a storm with winds over 45 knots. A mono can heave to, and even when lying a hull, they have a much better chance to survive. Cats require more active management in a storm. If you intend to avoid high latitudes, and you are really good at avoiding storms, then a cat isn't a bad choice. However, even sailing the trades, you may still find yourself in a severe storm once or twice in a circumnavigation. When we left Bermuda back in the 90s with a perfect forecast that was calling for 20 - 25 knots, we were a bit surprised when the wind picked up to 45 knots gusting into the high 50s. The seas were huge. I would not have wanted to be on a cat on that trip. Just saying....

I do like their shallow draft.

[smj]

Originally Posted by tdunlap

They are fine, until you find yourself short handed (like a crew of two), are tired, and you're in a storm with winds over 45 knots. A mono can heave to, and even when lying a hull, they have a much better chance to survive. Cats require more active management in a storm. If you intend to avoid high latitudes, and you are really good at avoiding storms, then a cat isn't a bad choice. However, even sailing the trades, you may still find yourself in a severe storm once or twice in a circumnavigation. When we left Bermuda back in the 90s with a perfect forecast that was calling for 20 - 25 knots, we were a bit surprised when the wind picked up to 45 knots gusting into the high 50s. The seas were huge. I would not have wanted to be on a cat on that trip. Just saying....



I do like their shallow draft.

Absolutely incorrect. A well designed catamaran will heave to and a well designed cat can be left will all canvas down and be able to slide down waves rather than trip on their keels.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by tdunlap

They are fine, until you find yourself short handed (like a crew of two), are tired, and you're in a storm with winds over 45 knots. A mono can heave to, and even when lying a hull, they have a much better chance to survive. Cats require more active management in a storm. If you intend to avoid high latitudes, and you are really good at avoiding storms, then a cat isn't a bad choice. However, even sailing the trades, you may still find yourself in a severe storm once or twice in a circumnavigation. When we left Bermuda back in the 90s with a perfect forecast that was calling for 20 - 25 knots, we were a bit surprised when the wind picked up to 45 knots gusting into the high 50s. The seas were huge. I would not have wanted to be on a cat on that trip. Just saying....



I do like their shallow draft.

Sigh, more ignorance.

A cat crew will likely be less tired than a mono crew as the boat motion will have been less tiring in the conditions leading up to the storm conditions. Take a look at Cat Impi videos of rough conditions - looks pretty calm on board. Even the LV videos as they crossed the North Atlantic last year didn’t look all that bad.

Before storm conditions (say the gale range 25-45 knots) most cats will manage to continue sailing with a motion that doesn’t prevent resting, cooking or going to the head. No need to heave to. We have sailed our cat in strong gale conditions both beam reaching and upwind. Perfectly fine, reefed well down. Breaking waves send the cat sliding sideways - no knockdowns, no rolling. Cats are generally easily driven, so can have smaller sails generating much less power and still maintain reasonable speed, so gusts and squalls on top of the steady wind aren’t much of a problem.

Once in storm conditions, where sailing is not really possible for any relatively small cruising boat, and neither heaving to nor laying ahull are safe (breaking waves, etc), most cats are just as capable of lying to parachute anchors or a drogue as most monohulls. No active management needed.

[JamesPNW]

Cost is the main factor. Not many who upgraded to Cat, said they wanted to go back to mono for the sailing experience.

[tdunlap]

I see, so when you disagree with someone you resort to calling them ignorant. Nice.

I'll just have to disagree, politely. Have you tried heaving to or lying a hull in 45 to 50 knots wind in a cat. Have you seen the seas such winds create offshore? Have you tired running in the same seas towing a drogue?

There is no way I'd want to be sailing a multi hull in the kind of storm we saw returning form Bermuda in 94. The seas were huge, so huge, as we quartered into them with a storm try-sail, you could look out one side of the boat and see a 30' wall of water, out the opposite side of the boat, you could look down near the same. As the boat road up and over them, you had to wonder at how the boat did not just fall off the wave. Occasionally one of the waves would break on top of the boat dumping tons of water on deck. Even in a mono, the idea of turning and running in these conditions was something I did not even want to consider.

Sail long enough and you may see a storm such as this, and for my money, and piece of mind, I'd prefer a mono hull. You may have another idea and that is fine. Fact is, you don't see multi hulls sailing high latitudes, unless they are professionally crewed race boats.

[smj]

Originally Posted by tdunlap

I see, so when you disagree with someone you resort to calling them ignorant. Nice.

I'll just have to disagree, politely. Have you tried heaving to or lying a hull in 45 to 50 knots wind in a cat. Have you seen the seas such winds create offshore? Have you tired running in the same seas towing a drogue?

There is no way I'd want to be sailing a multi hull in the kind of storm we saw returning form Bermuda in 94. The seas were huge, so huge, as we quartered into them with a storm try-sail, you could look out one side of the boat and see a 30' wall of water, out the opposite side of the boat, you could look down near the same. As the boat road up and over them, you had to wonder at how the boat did not just fall off the wave. Occasionally one of the waves would break on top of the boat dumping tons of water on deck. Even in a mono, the idea of turning and running in these conditions was something I did not even want to consider.

Sail long enough and you may see a storm such as this, and for my money, and piece of mind, I'd prefer a mono hull. You may have another idea and that is fine. Fact is, you don't see multi hulls sailing high latitudes, unless they are professionally crewed race boats.

Have you tried this in a catamaran? Have you ever sailed a catamaran?

[tdunlap]

Originally Posted by smj

Have you tried this in a catamaran? Have you ever sailed a catamaran?

That would be no, and yes. Have you? I mean sailed a cat in the conditions I described?

I don't have to craw into a commercial washing machine and turn it on to know what the outcome would be.

But seriously, if it's your cup of tea, fine. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. I don't mind if you disagree, just be nice about it.

You're not going to change my opinion, and I'm not going to change yours. Can we just leave it at that. I don't understand why people have to get personal and start with insults. Although, the ignorant comment was not yours, thank you.

[StanM]

Zingaro is now refitting an '93 Oyster 485' in Curacao.

https://svzingaro.com/2019/12/29/zin...of-the-damage/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeH9kFJn1YA

[Nauticus]

For me anyways, a catamaran offers a far better platform and space if you want to comfortably live aboard full time. If my goal was to just keep circumnavigating from adventure to adventure then you just can't beat a mono hull for safety and peace of mind on those long ocean crossings.

[smj]

Originally Posted by tdunlap

That would be no, and yes. Have you? I mean sailed a cat in the conditions I described?



I don't have to craw into a commercial washing machine and turn it on to know what the outcome would be.



But seriously, if it's your cup of tea, fine. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. I don't mind if you disagree, just be nice about it.



You're not going to change my opinion, and I'm not going to change yours. Can we just leave it at that. I don't understand why people have to get personal and start with insults. Although, the ignorant comment was not yours, thank you.

Once again a strong opinion from one with no experience. Seems like a common denominator of this thread.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by double u

"... multihull experience: soaking wet trying to right a HobieCat..."
aahh, the voice of reason & experience

Aren’t HobieCats similar to those little sailing race dinghies that are basically a knockdown/flip in progress constantly because it makes them race better?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by tdunlap

I see, so when you disagree with someone you resort to calling them ignorant. Nice.

I'll just have to disagree, politely. Have you tried heaving to or lying a hull in 45 to 50 knots wind in a cat. Have you seen the seas such winds create offshore? Have you tired running in the same seas towing a drogue?

There is no way I'd want to be sailing a multi hull in the kind of storm we saw returning form Bermuda in 94. The seas were huge, so huge, as we quartered into them with a storm try-sail, you could look out one side of the boat and see a 30' wall of water, out the opposite side of the boat, you could look down near the same. As the boat road up and over them, you had to wonder at how the boat did not just fall off the wave. Occasionally one of the waves would break on top of the boat dumping tons of water on deck. Even in a mono, the idea of turning and running in these conditions was something I did not even want to consider.

Sail long enough and you may see a storm such as this, and for my money, and piece of mind, I'd prefer a mono hull. You may have another idea and that is fine. Fact is, you don't see multi hulls sailing high latitudes, unless they are professionally crewed race boats.

I did not name call you (that would have been ‘Sigh, you are ignorant’) - I was referring to your statements. You haven’t been in the conditions you cite in a catamaran (or any other conditions in a cruising catamaran AFAIK) so how can you speak from any position of authority of how a catamaran would behave? And fact is, cruising catamarans do sail in high latitudes.

https://www.thelifetimecruise.com/antarctica

https://www.aeroyacht.com/2015/01/21...48-antarctica/

The strongest conditions I have experienced so far on our cat was steady 40 knots with gusts to 50 during a recent passage from Tonga to NZ, coming from a deep low fast-moving against the trade winds. The seas were 4-6 metres high and breaking on a very short wave length, about 30 metres, crossing the main 5 metre trade wind swell at about 45*. Some very tall waves and some very deep holes. We were close reaching (TWA 70* and AWA 60*) with triple reefed main and 50% reefed jib, keeping our speed between 7-8 knots to keep from wallowing (slower than 6) and to prevent leaping out of the waves (faster than 8). Our deck angle varied from -10 to +30 degrees, depending where on the wave we were. Every third or fourth wave would be breaking as it hit our windward hull and we could feel the sideways acceleration. Every tenth wave would break over the boat, sometimes with solid water. Every so often we would stuff one or both bows into a particularly steep wave, slowing us down and pumping the rig (broke a running backstay after 12 hours). Our windward board was half down. We had these conditions for over 36 hours, with the autopilot steering throughout. There was absolutely no reason to heave to.

Had it become windier we would have furled away the jib. The main alone (it’s a deep 3rd reef) is nominally good to 55 knots over the deck. Had the waves gotten bigger we eventually would have dropped the main and run obliquely with them.

We had two novice crew on their first ocean passage. Neither has told us that they felt in any way unsafe. Same for my wife, she said it was fun.

After the conditions moderated to 30s we hardened up to close hauled, stayed deeply reefed, and commenced making long tacks upwind for the next two days, so as to make way towards Bay of Islands rather than Norfolk Island. Seas continued lumpy and steep, with smaller breaking tops. No problems.

Remember the cruising yacht that was knocked down by a wave and sank just off the Bay of Islands last year, whose crew was rescued from the water? We were a few days behind them and got those same conditions, 500 miles off shore as the system moved east.

We are planning to go to higher latitudes both north and south in the Pacific. We have a new storm jib that will enable sailing longer than under main alone in strong conditions. We have prepared a Jordan Series Drogue for those conditions when sailing is no longer possible.

We have no worries about our boat, except for ice (we’re fibreglass, so will have to be careful).

[JPA Cate]

Of the monohulls which were lost most were rolled (not all) and none of those were sunk. All the crew of those boats were taken off their boats, after being rolled or pitchpolled, before the boats sunk, if they did sink. Some were found floating later.

All but one, a Lidgard called Quartermaster, 4 aboard. We listened to them check in on the ham net. And on their last night, they had a drogue out. The next time they were called (it was a roll call & position net), no one answered -- ever again. RIP, guys

Ann