Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sailing Ohm

Im all in for about $20K (includes initial $10k purchase and refit) for my 37’ monohull...

I’m just saying we all don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to put into a boat....
Would I like a lagoon 40? Sure but unless I am going to be given one I don’t see a realistic future where I can own one.
Now would I take a Hinckley over a lagoon 40? In a heartbeat I would but that’s my preference. But again I don’t see owning something like that.

On a personal note. I honestly don’t like the ‘sleek modern’ look of most catamarans and find a lot of them...lacking in character so I’ll say.

As I’ve said before, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a catamaran, under $100k would be plenty.
We currently own 2 catamarans and didn’t pay any where near $100k for each, and would rather own either one than a Lagoon 40.
And on a personal note, I really like the looks of the newer sleek performance cats. I like the looks of the classic monohull but couldn’t own one because of its sailing capabilities.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Gonna have to call BS on the "smaller rigging" I have yet to see a catamaran with "smaller rigging" than a comparable monohull. Catamaran rigging loads are higher than a monohull, so why would the rigging be smaller?

We are a 53 foot performance cruising catamaran with cruising loaded weight of about 11,000kg. Our 316SS 1x19 cap shrouds were 12mm in diameter. These are the only shrouds that support our mast, together with a 316SS 1x19 12mm forestay. Total white sail area is 115sqm. Our largest winches are 53 speed.

We were on board a Hanse 50 recently. It is 14,500kg loaded displacement and white sail area is 119sqm. Sail plan dimensions are almost the same as ours. It’s cap shrouds were SS316 1x19 14mm wire. Plus it has 2 more shrouds on each side supporting the mast. It had 55 speed winches.

So yes, our gear is smaller than a similarly sized monohull. No BS.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Coring is bad below the waterline on any boat because it is immersed 100% of the time if there is any, any potential for a leak or intrusion, it will compromise the core very quickly. Most production cored boats are only cored above the waterline. C&C were first to core hulls and learned on some of their race boats and production boats what happens when you core below the waterline. It can be OK if the owner or subsiquent further owners deal with it correctly (if you add a new thruhull you need to back gouge the core so that you can seal the core and essentially be single skin where the thruhull is. Takes planning and effort)

Badly built and/or maintained cored hulls are indeed a poor idea. Well built and maintained cored hulls are just fine, and offer some advantages over solid layup.

Our previous boat, a Palmer Johnson Standfast 36, had a Airex foam cored hull. When we sold her 17 years ago she was 30 years old and we had logged 86,000 miles in her... and she was ~10 years old w hen we bought her. At the time of survey there was no water intrusion or delamination in the hull. She is still going strong as of last year when we last saw her... still cruising.

And comparison of cored decks with cored hulls is silly. Hulls have very few penetrations, and in most boats they are original as installed by the builder. Decks, on the other hand, have dozens and dozens of penetrations and in many cases some of these are post-manufacture and done by owners with little knowledge or skill. The difference should be obvious.

Jim

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Why is coring bad below the waterline?
Please explain your opinion .

In the past cored hulls have had issues with water intrusion.

Any crack, screw hole, through hull, scrape, or ding will allow water into the coring material which is usually porous.

This adds weight, and will rot the core.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

In the past cored hulls have had issues with water intrusion.

Any crack, screw hole, through hull, scrape, or ding will allow water into the coring material which is usually porous.

This adds weight, and will rot the core.

As stated by Jim above it all depends on proper care . Aside from an airx core will not rot . Any and all ( that I am aware of ) issues with core materials in a hull are easily attributed to improper care and maintance of same. Rotten deck core can be attributed to the same .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by fxykty

We are a 53 foot performance cruising catamaran with cruising loaded weight of about 11,000kg. Our 316SS 1x19 cap shrouds were 12mm in diameter. These are the only shrouds that support our mast, together with a 316SS 1x19 12mm forestay. Total white sail area is 115sqm. Our largest winches are 53 speed.

We were on board a Hanse 50 recently. It is 14,500kg loaded displacement and white sail area is 119sqm. Sail plan dimensions are almost the same as ours. It’s cap shrouds were SS316 1x19 14mm wire. Plus it has 2 more shrouds on each side supporting the mast. It had 55 speed winches.

So yes, our gear is smaller than a similarly sized monohull. No BS.

I guarantee my rigging is heavier than yours but that is because the original owner specified 14mm for all standing rigging in 1963 when they purchased it. And I'm just a 29 ft 3/4 keel mono

[smj]

Our 40’ 6700 lb cat had all 8mm Dyform wire, (shrouds, forestay and diamonds) until we replaced the shrouds with 10mm Dyneema.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I guarantee my rigging is heavier than yours but that is because the original owner specified 14mm for all standing rigging in 1963 when they purchased it. And I'm just a 29 ft 3/4 keel mono

Are you sure about that size? That is grossly oversize... what was he thinking?

My S&S 30, about the same displacement, had 1/4 inch (~6 mm) wire.

That much extra weight aloft would have some noticeable stability effects.

Jim

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

In the past cored hulls have had issues with water intrusion.

Any crack, screw hole, through hull, scrape, or ding will allow water into the coring material which is usually porous.

This adds weight, and will rot the core.

Screw holes and thrugh hull fittings are made intentionally and can be (and must be) installed so that they do not allow water intrusion.

Cracks, scrapes, and dings are accidental and must be repaired, although most do not penetrate the skin or allow water intrusion.

I apprecite the reasons you stated, but selection of a sailboat based on its ability to withstand abuse and damage is only one approach, not mine. My hull is not cored but I do not think cored hulls are a bad idea, but they just must be treated with care and there are advantges in terms of stiffness and lightness.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Are you sure about that size? That is grossly oversize... what was he thinking?

My S&S 30, about the same displacement, had 1/4 inch (~6 mm) wire.

That much extra weight aloft would have some noticeable stability effects.

Jim

Actually Jim yes I am sure of the size . Remember I am a retired ( like that happens ) shipwright . I have no idea what they were thinking but I do know the rigging is way over sized and is good for at least 25 more years of sailing my boat .

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Actually Jim yes I am sure of the size . Remember I am a retired ( like that happens ) shipwright . I have no idea what they were thinking but I do know the rigging is way over sized and is good for at least 25 more years of sailing my boat .

Sorry about doubting your statement... it was just so extraordinary that I hadda wonder! My apologies, sincerely meant.

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Sorry about doubting your statement... it was just so extraordinary that I hadda wonder! My apologies, sincerely meant.

Jim

I know you weren't doubting me you were just in wonderment as to why they did it . I personally have no idea why but I do know the rigging will survive anything . They also had a heavy aluminum pipe placed u der the mast as a compression post which is not normal for the defender . It normally is just supported by the cross beam that ties the port and starboard bulkheads together with the deck . She is stout as he'll

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by newhaul

As stated by Jim above it all depends on proper care . Aside from an airx core will not rot . Any and all ( that I am aware of ) issues with core materials in a hull are easily attributed to improper care and maintance of same. Rotten deck core can be attributed to the same .

I like to find reefs with my keel. A hull cored below the waterline will be a problem.

There are plenty of places to save weight above the water.

[chrisr]

our 40' / 7500kg cat is 8mm inner f/stay, lower sides + both diamond stays + 10mm f/stay and upper sides

cat may get more shock load than mono (which heels to the gust to de-power), but don't have the rolling loads, and most importantly have a much wider base, so the rigging is more able to withstand the forces

cheers,

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

I like to find reefs with my keel. A hull cored below the waterline will be a problem.

There are plenty of places to save weight above the water.

If you like to find reefs with the keels on your leopard perhaps a cored hull is the last thing you need i can think of several other things first aside from a keel does not need nor should it be cored especially on a cat where it is a bolt so not part of the hull per se