Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by newhaul

So whats the history of your precious little elan ( I know they didn't make many )

And now I know why . They literally are a plastic boat .

Hull construction Resin infus./PVC foam hull side



https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/elan-410





And not even considered a Bluewater boat according to the comfort ratio breakdown

It has a 24.88



My 29 has a 33.47 for comparison and a solid glass hull that is at least 3/4 inch thick at the sheer and 2 inches or more at the turn of the bilge.



You can use the following guidelines to interpret comfort ratio results: numbers below 20 indicate a lightweight racing boat; 20 to 30 indicates a coastal cruiser; 30 to 40 indicates a moderate bluewater cruising boat; 50 to 60 indicates a heavy bluewater boat; and over 60 indicates an extremely heavy bluewater boat.

Wow, touting one of the “smallest” 29 footers out there and calling an Elan 410 “little”. I’m probably missing sarcasm or a joke

The Elan is a great boat- probably not a first choice for serious ocean passages, but neither is a 29 foot narrow short “full keeled” sailboat. Yes your 29 has bulletproof construction but comfort ratio doesn’t tell the whole story when you have an 8 foot beam and short ends which will cause hobbyhorsing and excessive heeling, all while being slow and wet.
I’m pretty sure my prior Luders 33 had a higher comfort ratio than my current Tartan 40 but let me tell you about actual comfort....

[double u]

just for the record: it's not our "precious little Elan" any more-we sold her.
She was just an unproblematic, run-of-the-mill, modern plastic monohull (that turned out to be a surprisingly good "bluewater long distance live aboard" boat), unproblematic in handling & maintenance, swift & fun to sail, be it across an ocean or on a daysail, &, in the end, easy to sell. Not "precious" at all, just overall pretty good & reasonably priced, good (relatively) tankage & payload, roomy (for a MONOhull ;-) )not "special" in any aspect.

[smj]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Wow, touting one of the “smallest” 29 footers out there and calling an Elan 410 “little”. I’m probably missing sarcasm or a joke

The Elan is a great boat- probably not a first choice for serious ocean passages, but neither is a 29 foot narrow short “full keeled” sailboat. Yes your 29 has bulletproof construction but comfort ratio doesn’t tell the whole story when you have an 8 foot beam and short ends which will cause hobbyhorsing and excessive heeling, all while being slow and wet.
I’m pretty sure my prior Luders 33 had a higher comfort ratio than my current Tartan 40 but let me tell you about actual comfort....

I would guess the Elan would probably be way faster than the Columbia 29, meaning significantly less time on a passage to be uncomfortable.
From what I’m reading the higher the number on the comfort ratio basically means the boat is heavier and slower?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Wow, touting one of the “smallest” 29 footers out there and calling an Elan 410 “little”. I’m probably missing sarcasm or a joke

The Elan is a great boat- probably not a first choice for serious ocean passages, but neither is a 29 foot narrow short “full keeled” sailboat. Yes your 29 has bulletproof construction but comfort ratio doesn’t tell the whole story when you have an 8 foot beam and short ends which will cause hobbyhorsing and excessive heeling, all while being slow and wet.
I’m pretty sure my prior Luders 33 had a higher comfort ratio than my current Tartan 40 but let me tell you about actual comfort....

Well one of the first things my boat did out of the factory was a circumnavigation via the southern route not any canals .

She locks in at about 18° heel and scoots along at 6 knots for ever not unlike the speed of just about every monohull on an extended passage.

But if you want like for like how about my spencer s42. Comfort ratio of 30.64 and did not do significantly faster passage to Hawaii. Iirc I spent an additional 2 days at sea on the defender.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/spencer-42

Again solid glass hull .

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by newhaul

...But if you want like for like how about my spencer s42. Comfort ratio of 30.64 and did not do significantly faster passage to Hawaii...

Ted Brewer said, "This is a ratio that I dreamed up, tongue-in-cheek, as a measure of motion comfort".

Comfort is a subjective thing. It is not surprising that boats which Ted designed do better in his "tongue in cheek" measurement.

I've sailed in the ocean in all kinds of boats and I do not think that the "comfort ratio" tells you anything about overall comfort, but if you really like heavy boats, it validates your preference. It's the inverse of speed. An island has the ultimate comfort ratio.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Ted Brewer said, "This is a ratio that I dreamed up, tongue-in-cheek, as a measure of motion comfort".

Comfort is a subjective thing. It is not surprising that boats which Ted designed do better in his "tongue in cheek" measurement.

I've sailed in the ocean in all kinds of boats and I do not think that the "comfort ratio" tells you anything about overall comfort, but if you really like heavy boats, it validates your preference. It's the inverse of speed. An island has the ultimate comfort ratio.

She was a fast and beautiful girl even placed third in the baha ha ha back with the first owner I think it was 1968.
Brandlymeyer designed her for comfort and speed . I personally have run her on a broad reach clocking 15 knots

[Jim Cate]

She was a fast and beautiful girl even placed third in the baha ha ha

considering that the Baja ha ha is a cruising rally where motoring is commonplace, how can a boat "place third"? And what would it mean if it did?

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

considering that the Baja ha ha is a cruising rally where motoring is commonplace, how can a boat "place third"? And what would it mean if it did?

Jim

Back then they sailed sailboats.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by newhaul

She was a fast and beautiful girl even placed third in the baha ha ha back with the first owner I think it was 1968.
Brandlymeyer designed her for comfort and speed . I personally have run her on a broad reach clocking 15 knots

If this is the 44foot John Brandlymayer design and built in Richmond, BC by Spencer yachts then I'd be astonished if it would sail at 15kt on a broad reach (other than a very rare big surf with a lot of sail area up) or any direction for that matter.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by wingssail

If this is the 44foot John Brandlymayer design and built in Richmond, BC by Spencer yachts then I'd be astonished if it would sail at 15kt on a broad reach (other than a very rare big surf with a lot of sail area up) or any direction for that matter.

The la Ruina hull #6 s42 not the 44.
I'm sure you saw her she was home ported in Anacortes. For most of her life . Up until the last 15 or so she has been in tacoma. Now in pt Townsend with new owner.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Back then they sailed sailboats.

Perhaps so, though I doubt if there is all that much change in the sort of Ha Ha participants or their boats... but it still was NOT a race, it had several stops along the way, there were no official start lines or sequences after those stops, and there was no rule against motoring at will.

Not trying to denigrate the boat, but questioning the validity of "finishing third" as a compliment towards the boat's sailing ability.

And I agree with Wingsail's question about the sustained 15 knots for such a boat... way beyond hull speed, and a hill design not conducive to planing.

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Perhaps so, though I doubt if there is all that much change in the sort of Ha Ha participants or their boats... but it still was NOT a race, it had several stops along the way, there were no official start lines or sequences after those stops, and there was no rule against motoring at will.

Not trying to denigrate the boat, but questioning the validity of "finishing third" as a compliment towards the boat's sailing ability.

And I agree with Wingsail's question about the sustained 15 knots for such a boat... way beyond hull speed, and a hill design not conducive to planing.

Jim

Well I watched it on the knot meter full main with a 150 and 25 knots wind on a beam reach . Buried the dolphins .

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Well I watched it on the knot meter full main with a 150 and 25 knots wind on a beam reach . Buried the dolphins .

That is impressive if inexplicable. How do you reckon it was possible?

In our similarly sized relatively light boat (but with >44 feet of waterline) we've had a couple of surfs in the mid 15s and some sustained 11s... also with plain sails. It is a mystery to me how the subject boat could be so fast.

Jim

[Cliffhanger]

Originally Posted by smj

Chances of a monohull getting knocked down is much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull rolling 360 degrees is also much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull sinking is about equal to a catamaran flipping.

These comments intrigues me. My gut feeling tells me that it is correct from everything I have heard, seen and experienced over the years. I think the knockdown and rolling chances are fairly hard to are argue with. But are there any statistics that back up the chances of a monohull sinking is the same as a catamaran flipping?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by smj

Chances of a monohull getting knocked down is much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull rolling 360 degrees is also much higher than a catamaran flipping. Chances of a monohull sinking is about equal to a catamaran flipping.

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

These comments intrigues me. My gut feeling tells me that it is correct from everything I have heard, seen and experienced over the years. I think the knockdown and rolling chances are fairly hard to are argue with. But are there any statistics that back up the chances of a monohull sinking is the same as a catamaran flipping?

My gut feeling does not agree with yours. Yes, a knock down (whatever you define that as) on a monohull is much more common than a catamarn flipping. The consequences, however, are worlds apart. Knock down is NOTHING! It happens, Then your boat stands up again and it's over. You pick up the apples and oranges off your cabin sole, and you go on your way.

You flip on a catamaran and it ruins you whole day.

Getting rolled 360 degrees on a monohull is infinitesimally rare, considering how many are out there cruising the world. Catamarans getting upside down is fairly common, I think, according to the news we all see. But if you've got any statistics to back that up SMJ, then please share them with us.

Monohulls sinking? OK that happens, rarely caused by a 360 roll.