Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[Pelagic]

This shouldn't be a debate over which is better, but more what design attributes fits your needs.

In 2004 when I decided to buy a live aboard for Asia, I first looked at Multis to compare with buying a larger mono.
Budget was flexible, so lots of choices to look at worldwide.

What influenced me most then was probably my location:

Limited travel lifts in Asia to haul out a wide multi.

My limited knowledge of Multi's behavior at anchor in severe Typhoon conditions.

Philippine's lack of rescue services and yacht infrastructure favored a tough rugged structurally proven design that could carry a large payload of spares and stores

Survivability if I went aground.

That swayed me to decide conservatively on a 62ft steel dutch built pilothouse schooner as a proven circumnavigator which I have loved and cherished as part of my family. I just know this boat so well!

17 years later, if I was doing the same search, Multis would now have a much more proven selection to influence my choice along with some improvements in support infrastructure.

Yet my Location still favors the bullet proof strength of my Corten Steel hull in 3rd world conditions and a soft sea kindly motion going to windward in short sharp seas between the islands.

So I think, mono would still remain higher within my comfort zone for my location.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by smj

The Lagoon 380 wont be as restricted by hull speed as a monohull so a few knots more wind for them would also mean higher boat speeds.

My 40’LWL monohull will very comfortably go 7.5-8 knots in a little stronger breeze but I think a 38’ cat would be straining to do the same because the associated sea state would have a greater negative effect on the lighter boat that has much less inertia. But, as I said earlier in response to someone who questioned the speed of cats, I don’t think the speed of even a charter cat would be very different from a monohull cruiser in most cruising passages. Cats do great off the wind and I think that since most of us usually motorsail rather than beat to weather in strong winds, monos advantage on this point of sail isn’t much of a factor. Watching the bow smash into big waves while beating into a 20-25 knot breeze and associated waves is exciting and great fun for an hour or so, but for me at least, it gets really old if I’m trying to get somewhere and it’s going to last all day. I’d much rather motor directly into the wind/waves or motorsail just off the wind and get there sooner. I’m assuming most other cruisers feel similarly?

[goboatingnow]

Cats , sailed one once , terrified me. Monos for me. If you want space buy a mobo

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Cats , sailed one once , terrified me. Monos for me. If you want space buy a mobo

That’s a surprising statement. I’ve heard a lot of things about Catamarans, but I certainly have never heard of anyone that was terrified of them. Lol. They are so benign. Usually people get terrified when a boat heels. Not when it just sits there bouncing around as it travels along.

Was it one of these or something?



I could see some people being scared of something like this.

I don’t know if my perspective is changing, or if the forum has changed, but it seems to have changed from the cruisers forum to the Fear Forum. Everybody out here is scared of their own shadow.

[smj]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

My 40’LWL monohull will very comfortably go 7.5-8 knots in a little stronger breeze but I think a 38’ cat would be straining to do the same because the associated sea state would have a greater negative effect on the lighter boat that has much less inertia. But, as I said earlier in response to someone who questioned the speed of cats, I don’t think the speed of even a charter cat would be very different from a monohull cruiser in most cruising passages. Cats do great off the wind and I think that since most of us usually motorsail rather than beat to weather in strong winds, monos advantage on this point of sail isn’t much of a factor. Watching the bow smash into big waves while beating into a 20-25 knot breeze and associated waves is exciting and great fun for an hour or so, but for me at least, it gets really old if I’m trying to get somewhere and it’s going to last all day. I’d much rather motor directly into the wind/waves or motorsail just off the wind and get there sooner. I’m assuming most other cruisers feel similarly?

No doubt I think your mono would be faster hard on the wind beating into a chop. But that’s not what we are talking about? In your first post you said both you and the cat were on a beam reach. The bigger chop caused by a stronger wind on the beam will have little effect on the cats speed, but the increase in wind will translate into an increase in speed. How much extra speed I don’t know, but I’m sure the Lagoon 380 is capable of achieving double digit speeds in the right conditions?

[NevilleCat]

50 pages and no consensus!
There's a surprise.
My last little 31 foot cruising cat was open bridgedeck, like cruising in 2 small-ish monos slung together. A pudgy little thing but a great feeling of safety when reefing etc as it was 23 feet wide and you just wandered up to the mast with no heeling and drama. One winch in the centre of the deck for the sheets, and multi- purchase mainsheet. It was all so easy compared to mono sailing, much less bruising. Speed...well it was a bit stubby on the waterline and transoms would dig in a bit, but compared with my previous 30' 1/2 Tonner style cruiser (fin and spade) she would typically do 8kn where the old boat would do 6 and 10 when the old boat might do 8.
Didn't like a short chop upwind, but in open sea was great. 13kn on the breeze no worries but there would be rooster tails out the back for excitement.
Never had any downwind sails but surfing on rails plays trying not to broach in the mono...no brainer really.
But the cost! Especially in Aus and especially now days.

[chris mac]

There is a lot of generalization in this thread. A lot of people seem to think all catamarans are like the one they chartered that one time.
We just finished a 200 mile (rhumb line)hop down the East coast,Charleston SC to Saint augustine. The weatherforecast was very wrong, so we were beating pretty much the whole way. We were about 35 to 45 apparent for over 20 hours straight, 5-7 foot seas and against 1.5 knot current(according to my instruments) 20 knots of wind, gusts to 29.
We arrived in 27 hours, so that means vmg of 7.5 knots. So we averaged at least 9(through water) while bashing. It wasn't comfortable, but the auto pilot held course, i was able to sit comfortably in the cockpit, or salon. Still went down below to use the head(standing).
This was the roughest trip we have done, more spray into the cockpit than ever before. We definately prefer beam or downwind as I'm sure most do(in any boat) Only a couple drawers opened, light items like pillows and blankets fell down, some content in cupboards shifted and my wife was definately sea sick[emoji56] but I could still put down my coffee cup on the table by the helm. It didn't move.
Another catamaran we passed early in the trip arrived about 6 hours after us. They did end up motor sailing at 45 degrees in order to make decent way.
So my point, catamarans, like monohulls, are all different. Every attribute on a boat(any boat) has a trade off. Speed, space, storage, toys aboard, draft, they all effect each other.
If you are happy with your boat, as I am, use it and enjoy it. If you aren't happy, look around, try other boats, find what does make you happy. Mono or cat. I don't know about any of you, but happiness is a big part of why I moved aboard.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by chris mac

There is a lot of generalization in this thread....

....Mono or cat. I don't know about any of you, but happiness is a big part of why I moved aboard.

Good points and I agree Chris, which is why I was specific on my earlier post about what made me happy and why?

These threads usually devolve into bashing others choices which is stupid as all boats and sailors are different.

BUT Comparisons are useful and I think it would be fair to compare a 42ft Cat as you have with my 62ft mono for a specific cruising area like my own in the Philippines.

My cruising area is like a Triangle from Subic just above Manila, SW to Palawan and East thru Visayas Islands towards Bohol and Leyte .

Seasonal best is the dry NE Monsoon between October and May where surges in Monsoon winds average 25-30 knots December to March. Those NE winds bend around the mountains to fill thru the channels which mostly run in a NE/SW direction

Similar in the SW Monsoon which have lighter surges and of course the threat of Typhoons spread over a few months from July to December

The Pacific Ocean Floods in and around the Philippines making for strong and confused mixing currents through the central islands where tide against wind in a confused sea create tall square waves if you time it wrong.

So like so many places, you find yourself with winds either on the nose or behind you .

If running, you will be in your element and leave me behind as I would only average 8 knots in those short steep seas due to my heavy displacement of 42 tons. I am guessing your displacement at about 15 ton.

Wind on the nose thru those channels we both would probably be close hauled motorsailing, my SOG would be kept down to 6.5 for sea comfort. This would be your worst conditions and I've see other cats really struggle, but you would know better than I how to handle it on your boat.

As I said, my previous post #736 described the decision influences in 2004 for my location and I'm still happy with my choice.





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[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by smj

No doubt I think your mono would be faster hard on the wind beating into a chop. But that’s not what we are talking about? In your first post you said both you and the cat were on a beam reach. The bigger chop caused by a stronger wind on the beam will have little effect on the cats speed, but the increase in wind will translate into an increase in speed. How much extra speed I don’t know, but I’m sure the Lagoon 380 is capable of achieving double digit speeds in the right conditions?

You are right we were on a beam reach and you may well also be right about it’s ultimate speed, and id love to see a 38’ cruising cat doing double digits, but not sure id want to be aboard for very long.

[boatman61]

Have done 11kts in a L380.. between Sicily and Mallorca we picked up F7 NNE winds which had us barrelling along under 2 reefs and 60% jib.. sea's 2 n a bit metres.. noise in the Lee Hull was bad with the sea's sliding under the windward hull then slamming into the Lee.
Averaged 9kts in f6 with asymmetric running down to the Canaries with occasional surfs of 14kts +.
Two things, it was a delivery so not loaded up, and the other, it was Monte's old L380 so was well tuned and sorted.

[Discovery 15797]

As illustrated throughout this thread, there are advantages and disadvantages to mono's and cats, and sometimes it comes down to personal preference, location, sailing style (live aboard, long distance cruising, circumnavigating, island hopping, chartering, etc), and of course financial resources.

But, IMHO and experience I think Pelagic hit the nail on the head, and ultimately it's about practicality for the type of sailing, and places you plan to sail.

One big factor in mono vs. cat debate is where are you going to dock a cat in the US? Most marinas were not built to accommodate a fleet of cats, and it's not like people are rushing to build or restructure marinas. This is not just true of US, but in the Pacific islands also. Dock space availability is very limited so you'll be hanging on a mooring ball or swinging from a hook.

Another factor is of course the availability of boat yards that can provide haul out services for cats. Of course cat owners will say they can just beach their boats to do hull work, but sometimes you might need some yard time, and yards to hull and accommodate cats are few and far between.

Long term cost is perhaps one of the most deciding factors. Dock fees, maintenance fees, etc. can really chew into a budget.

Survivability - while there are many well built cats, IMHO a mono can take a pounding year in year out in ocean crossings and long term cruising and storm conditions better than most cats. This may have more to do with experience of the skipper.

[smj]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

You are right we were on a beam reach and you may well also be right about it’s ultimate speed, and id love to see a 38’ cruising cat doing double digits, but not sure id want to be aboard for very long.

Our 39’er regularily gets into the double digits, and I’m still getting used to it. My pucker factor is about 12-13, though I know she will easily handle more. It’s weird but things seem to get quieter and the motion smoothes out once above about 11.5.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

My 40’LWL monohull will very comfortably go 7.5-8 knots in a little stronger breeze but I think a 38’ cat would be straining to do the same because the associated sea state would have a greater negative effect on the lighter boat that has much less inertia. But, as I said earlier in response to someone who questioned the speed of cats, I don’t think the speed of even a charter cat would be very different from a monohull cruiser in most cruising passages. Cats do great off the wind and I think that since most of us usually motorsail rather than beat to weather in strong winds, monos advantage on this point of sail isn’t much of a factor. Watching the bow smash into big waves while beating into a 20-25 knot breeze and associated waves is exciting and great fun for an hour or so, but for me at least, it gets really old if I’m trying to get somewhere and it’s going to last all day. I’d much rather motor directly into the wind/waves or motorsail just off the wind and get there sooner. I’m assuming most other cruisers feel similarly?

our preferred option is to wait until the weather changes...

cheers,

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

My 40’LWL monohull will very comfortably go 7.5-8 knots in a little stronger breeze but I think a 38’ cat would be straining to do the same because the associated sea state would have a greater negative effect on the lighter boat that has much less inertia. But, as I said earlier in response to someone who questioned the speed of cats, I don’t think the speed of even a charter cat would be very different from a monohull cruiser in most cruising passages. Cats do great off the wind and I think that since most of us usually motorsail rather than beat to weather in strong winds, monos advantage on this point of sail isn’t much of a factor. Watching the bow smash into big waves while beating into a 20-25 knot breeze and associated waves is exciting and great fun for an hour or so, but for me at least, it gets really old if I’m trying to get somewhere and it’s going to last all day. I’d much rather motor directly into the wind/waves or motorsail just off the wind and get there sooner. I’m assuming most other cruisers feel similarly?

Originally Posted by smj

Our 39’er regularily gets into the double digits, and I’m still getting used to it. My pucker factor is about 12-13, though I know she will easily handle more. It’s weird but things seem to get quieter and the motion smoothes out once above about 11.5.

my top speed helming my own yacht was 29.6k...and yes things do get smoother and quieter at speed...but things go wrong awfully quickly too !

cheers,

[Stellar1970Cat]

Originally Posted by Dave Noosa

A million dollar Cat is unattainable, the dream stays alive with a $150k monohull

I paid 1/10th of that 150k for my cat[emoji16]