Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Master56

Sailing flat and not having your apple danish roll off the table isn't what sailing is about.

and having that nice big sliding glass door to the back porch

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by smj

Having reviewed some of your log book on your website it appears you would be really happy to make 6kts in 6kts of wind on your 43’ fast racer converted to cruiser. I was really impressed to see that you were making windspeed in a couple of your entries until I looked at the side note and realized you were motoring! Hohum...........

Congratulations on cracking the code on our log book entries. I hoped people would read them but I never figured anybody was doing it.

As to your observation: I can guarantee that in 6 knots of true wind, on a close reach, we could attain 6 knots of boat speed. Finding proof of that in our log would take some time (the wind and speed data are not searchable). But here is an example: On Feb 24, 2021 at 15:52 we logged 6-7 knots of boat speed in 5-6 knots of wind, Log Book Pages: Wednesday Beer Can. (I have available the GPX file with boat speeds and headings if you are interested.) And yes we would be pretty satisfied whenever we did that.

For us it is hard work, not easy peasy like on the 56’ Balance. And we rarely work the boat that hard when cruising, but it is possible. Races are usually not conducted in 6 knots. And when we do make 6 knots in 6 knots of wind we’ll be and sitting completely still lined up along the low side railing, not even allowed to talk.

But the main point I’d make is that we are comparing a 40 year old liveaboard IOR boat with a 36ft waterline against a modern 56’ catamaran with assumedly over 50’ of waterline.
On that boat I don’t think 6kts is impressive.

[smj]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Congratulations on cracking the code on our log book entries. I hoped people would read them but I never figured anybody was doing it.



As to your observation: I can guarantee that in 6 knots of true wind, on a close reach, we could attain 6 knots of boat speed. Finding proof of that in our log would take some time (the wind and speed data are not searchable). But here is an example: On Feb 24, 2021 at 15:52 we logged 6-7 knots of boat speed in 5-6 knots of wind, Log Book Pages: Wednesday Beer Can. (I have available the GPX file with boat speeds and headings if you are interested.) And yes we would be pretty satisfied whenever we did that.



For us it is hard work, not easy peasy like on the 56’ Balance. And we rarely work the boat that hard when cruising, but it is possible. Races are usually not conducted in 6 knots. And when we do make 6 knots in 6 knots of wind we’ll be and sitting completely still lined up along the low side railing, not even allowed to talk.



But the main point I’d make is that we are comparing a 40 year old liveaboard IOR boat with a 36ft waterline against a modern 56’ catamaran with assumedly over 50’ of waterline.

On that boat I don’t think 6kts is impressive.

I read about 10 of your log entries, quite a bit of motoring and nothing spectacular at all concerning sailing speeds definitely nothing coming close to windspeed.
Looks like you’ve handpicked a good log in racing mode, maybe that’s the difference. Either way I do appreciate the vast amount of cruising that you’ve done and the miles travelled. Very impressive.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by smj

I read about 10 of your log entries, quite a bit of motoring and nothing spectacular at all concerning sailing speeds definitely nothing coming close to windspeed.
Looks like you’ve handpicked a good log in racing mode, maybe that’s the difference. Either way I do appreciate the vast amount of cruising that you’ve done and the miles travelled. Very impressive.

Thank you.

I can talk at wind speed!

[Master56]

[QUOTE=smj;3527099]I read about 10 of your log entries, quite a bit of motoring and nothing spectacular at all concerning sailing speeds definitely nothing coming close to windspeed.

Agreed.

[Master56]

Originally Posted by gonesail

and having that nice big sliding glass door to the back porch

Yep, you've got it.
Sailor's boats have the a helm, galley, heads, berths, cabins, saloon, back deck and so forth.
Catamarans have steering wheels, kitchens, toilets, beds, bedrooms, lounge room, verandahs and the rest of the stuff you have at home.
The 'luxuries' of a house on land are not what lovers of sailing are after. It is something else entirely, which is hard to explain and doesn't really need explanation. If you're hooked you're hooked.
Years ago I sailed into a small island in Indonesia called Banda Neira on a Bowman 47 with the wealthy owner aboard on our return to Oz from the Darwin/Ambon yacht race. He had been impressed with a sail he had on a nice cat in Ambon Harbour; particularly noting the lack of heel. Anyway, Banda has an active volcano and the crew decided to climb up and have a look in. He wasn't interested in joining us in this physical, exciting and slightly dangerous activity; and said, 'I've seen plenty of volcanoes from the luxury of a helicopter.' I'm only guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if he bought himself a catamaran.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Master56

Yep, you've got it.
Sailor's boats have the a helm, galley, heads, berths, cabins, saloon, back deck and so forth.
Catamarans have steering wheels, kitchens, toilets, beds, bedrooms, lounge room, verandahs and the rest of the stuff you have at home.
The 'luxuries' of a house on land are not what lovers of sailing are after. It is something else entirely, which is hard to explain and doesn't really need explanation. If you're hooked you're hooked.
Years ago I sailed into a small island in Indonesia called Banda Neira on a Bowman 47 with the wealthy owner aboard on our return to Oz from the Darwin/Ambon yacht race. He had been impressed with a sail he had on a nice cat in Ambon Harbour; particularly noting the lack of heel. Anyway, Banda has an active volcano and the crew decided to climb up and have a look in. He wasn't interested in joining us in this physical, exciting and slightly dangerous activity; and said, 'I've seen plenty of volcanoes from the luxury of a helicopter.' I'm only guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if he bought himself a catamaran.

I’ve never been passed by the “sailors” boat, never. I’ve always passed the “sailors” boat, always. Now when I do pass y’all you look like your having a ball, heeled over hanging on the high side…….just looks like a ton of work for going that slow.
Don’t get me wrong, at some point in the future I may get passed by a “sailors” boat, but then again our cat is overloaded and captained by a complete idiot. Which brings up the point of why I’ve never been passed by a “sailors” boat……

[Whokickamoocow]

Why? Because sailing monohulls offshore remains one of the true visceral experiences you will do in your lifetime. I love pickleforks, but most modern designs have detached the crew from the water. I started offshore sailing in multis but then migrated back to mono's for the sheer enjoyment of sailing a boat, rather than just riding one.

[Whokickamoocow]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...e/reaching.jpg

[newhaul]

When it's all said and done we all get to enjoy the same sunsets and sunrises.

[smj]

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Master56

Yep, you've got it.
Sailor's boats have the a helm, galley, heads, berths, cabins, saloon, back deck and so forth.
Catamarans have steering wheels, kitchens, toilets, beds, bedrooms, lounge room, verandahs and the rest of the stuff you have at home.
The 'luxuries' of a house on land are not what lovers of sailing are after. It is something else entirely, which is hard to explain and doesn't really need explanation. If you're hooked you're hooked.
Years ago I sailed into a small island in Indonesia called Banda Neira on a Bowman 47 with the wealthy owner aboard on our return to Oz from the Darwin/Ambon yacht race. He had been impressed with a sail he had on a nice cat in Ambon Harbour; particularly noting the lack of heel. Anyway, Banda has an active volcano and the crew decided to climb up and have a look in. He wasn't interested in joining us in this physical, exciting and slightly dangerous activity; and said, 'I've seen plenty of volcanoes from the luxury of a helicopter.' I'm only guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if he bought himself a catamaran.

This has always bothered me. There are things on Catamarans that just are not the same as on monohulls when it comes to the terminology.

I think people started calling things the same as they do on land because it’s a slippery slope.

The biggest one to me, is what you look through out of the deck house. They are not ports. They are too big to be ports. They are actually, legitimately, windows. So you have to call them windows. There’s quite a distinction between a window in a catamaran and a port that you look through.

On my boat, everything is called the way it was on a monohull except the windows. And I guess there is no companionway either. Just the salon doors. But I can see how people, after a few things don’t fit, end up going down a slippery slope.

I have a galley, (wheel) helm, settees, salon, aft deck, berths, staterooms, head, etc. But I can certainly see why some people start to call them the same as on land. Personally, I don’t like it. I like to use the traditional words. And I can’t use them for the windows and that drives me nuts.

[Jim Cate]

Ha! There ya go, Chotu, you've made a post with which I agree and expressing feelings that I share.

Good one, mate!

Jim

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ha! There ya go, Chotu, you've made a post with which I agree and expressing feelings that I share.

Good one, mate!

Jim

Excellent! I hope there are more and more! I think you’re a good guy with very respectable interests.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by smj

I read about 10 of your log entries, quite a bit of motoring and nothing spectacular at all concerning sailing speeds definitely nothing coming close to windspeed...

Well, smj, you're right about my sailing speeds definately not coming close to wind speeds.

Actually I never claimed that. That is a topic more often discussed by multihull folks. The truth is, my boat is not particularly fast, despite being a "racing boat". Get the breeze up, and set a reaching course, and the multi's blow by me. But it is an old IOR boat designed to a rule which didn't encourage really fast boats. But they are pretty good all around boats and sort of fast, and good at all wind angles. And they are great for racing.

But the thing about racing boats is that they really are made for racing, and that means being good for much more than shear speed on a reach. The other thing, and this pertains to all boats when racing, (unless they are one design), is the handicapping rules which adjust out the inherant speed differences. So a Balance 56, or your TRT1200 which by all measures, are really fast on a 63TWA reach, have to give time to my old IOR houseboat.

So we can race together.

Now we'll come down to the heart of the matter: Upwind and downwind. We've raced against quite a few multis, from folding Farrier 40 trimarans to bigger, performance Catamarans. On the reaches they scream away. To windward they suck. Downwind they do better but still suck because they need to reach so high.

Maybe you've never been passed by a "sailors boat" but I've never been beaten by a multi in a race with a decent windward leg, and I don't just mean under handicap. I mean elapsed time. So I'd love to see you show up at one of our windward leeward races. It would be fun.

Further, we want to live aboard. Everything we own is here. 14 sails, tools, spare parts, and all of our household belongings, plus food, drink, and fuel and water for an extended time. And we still beat the multi's.

So, there are certainly many faster boats than ours, (and there are windsurfers which are faster than all of us and can blow your cat away) but for our needs, our monohull, which can make great time in any direction and ANY SEA AND WIND STATE) and we can live aboard and race, is what works for us. Doesn't mean it is superior, just means it's right for us.

PS

And I agree totally with Chotu's comments pertaining to the "land based" nomonclature on a Multi:

Originally Posted by Chotu

...I have a galley, (wheel) helm, settees, salon, aft deck, berths, staterooms, head, etc. But I can certainly see why some people start to call them the same as on land. Personally, I don’t like it. I like to use the traditional words. And I can’t use them for the windows and that drives me nuts.