"Win" a Rhodes 40' Sloop: Siskiwit

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Don C L

She is designed to heel, to gain more water line. I believe the info in sailboatdata is incorrect, the 2900# would be way too light for her. Not many boats can stay upright with a ballast to displacement ratio of 13.87. This site may help:
Rhodes Reliant and Offshore 40 History and Accomplishments
Yes she was an unapproved use of Rhodes' design as I recall. I believe the Bounty II had iron ballast originally, perhaps for its entire run, the Pearson Rhodes 41 had lead, and I thought the Cheoy Lee also had lead but according to sailboatdata and the above site, it had encapsulated iron. Any owners out there who can confirm it? That particular Rhodes design is also one of the few I drool over. Yes, the engine is in a tight spot, but who uses an engine anyway?

Rhodes designed the "Rhodes Reliant" for Cheoy Lee to build, but then I guess they got tired of paying royalties: they mirror-imaged the deck plan, altered the ends of the mold superficially, and called it the "offshore 40". They also switched from an external lead ballast with bronze bolts to an internal ballast, I think some "offshore 40"s have different materials in there. Its around 8000lbs.

[rognvald]

"The website states that all relatives and the affiliated boat yard employees are banned from entering...." Dave

Wow, Dave . . .
That sounds really fair after all. . . did they mention a consolation prize for those that sent $150. and didn't win? I'll be watching for other great deals like this online . . . I guess ya just have to keep open minded about life . . . right? Good luck and good raffling.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Rhodes designed the "Rhodes Reliant" for Cheoy Lee to build, but then I guess they got tired of paying royalties: they mirror-imaged the deck plan, altered the ends of the mold superficially, and called it the "offshore 40". They also switched from an external lead ballast with bronze bolts to an internal ballast, I think some "offshore 40"s have different materials in there. Its around 8000lbs.

I got curious about it and found this:

"The Reliant project brought Rhodes some special stress. Cheoy Lee made a knock-off from the Rhodes design, marketed as the Offshore 40, and refused to pay design royalties to Rhodes. Rhodes considered suing, but finally decided that the lawyers would end up with the money, not him. Perhaps this soured Rhodes on fiberglass mass production; he did not provide any other designs for fiberglass production classes. Thus the Bounty II-R41-Reliant were his largest mass produced fiberglass boat."

from this site:
Philip Rhodes Sail Boats

Really sad that was the last boat Rhodes designed for fiberglass.

[LLCoolDave]

Originally Posted by rognvald

"The website states that all relatives and the affiliated boat yard employees are banned from entering...." Dave

Wow, Dave . . .
That sounds really fair after all. . . did they mention a consolation prize for those that sent $150. and didn't win? I'll be watching for other great deals like this online . . . I guess ya just have to keep open minded about life . . . right? Good luck and good raffling.

$150 is not a lot of money at least to me. It would be fairly easy to find out if Henry awarded the boat to a relative. Probably a few google searches, a family history check, maybe a private investigator. If it turns out to be fraud then you are looking at 900 lawsuits, maybe a class action. It doesn't seem worth it just to sell a $50k boat. IMO

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I got curious about it and found this:

"The Reliant project brought Rhodes some special stress. Cheoy Lee made a knock-off from the Rhodes design, marketed as the Offshore 40, and refused to pay design royalties to Rhodes. Rhodes considered suing, but finally decided that the lawyers would end up with the money, not him. Perhaps this soured Rhodes on fiberglass mass production; he did not provide any other designs for fiberglass production classes. Thus the Bounty II-R41-Reliant were his largest mass produced fiberglass boat."

from this site:
Philip Rhodes Sail Boats

Really sad that was the last boat Rhodes designed for fiberglass.

The Cheoy Lee version is a mirror image(reverse) of the Rhodes version. Otherwise identical. Cheoy Lee ballast can be anything from full lead to full cement with punchings. I have had several Cheoy Lees(clipper, luders) and visited their old Lantau yard. Ballast changed depending on how the owner wanted it. Some were all inside ballast, others were bolt on. Unless you inspect the boat and take samples, do not rely on written documentation, unless from the yard, about what was used.

A lot of CLs were custom made upon order. Others were made for market. Many orders were from Navy personnel. Its the only sailboat where the hull and deck are one piece fiberglass layup.

[carstenb]

He's not being very honest. The website says that a "comparable new boat would cost $500,000 (41 foot island packet) or $750,000 (39 foot shannon).

Now I'm not up on the current cost of new boats in the US, but $500k for an Island Packet?????

$750k for a Shannon (note that Shannon is now defunct I believe)????????????

For $750k you can buy a 50+ foot Oyster or a used 54 foot Moody here in europe and still have a good deal of pocket change left over

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by reed1v

The Cheoy Lee version is a mirror image(reverse) of the Rhodes version. Otherwise identical. Cheoy Lee ballast can be anything from full lead to full cement with punchings. I have had several Cheoy Lees(clipper, luders) and visited their old Lantau yard. Ballast changed depending on how the owner wanted it. Some were all inside ballast, others were bolt on. Unless you inspect the boat and take samples, do not rely on written documentation, unless from the yard, about what was used.

A lot of CLs were custom made upon order. Others were made for market. Many orders were from Navy personnel. Its the only sailboat where the hull and deck are one piece fiberglass layup.

Differences between the Reliant and the Offshore 40:

Rudder shape (round for reliant, squared for offishly eore 40)

Rudder construction (rudder shaft and rudder are separate pieces on the reliant, with the rudder shaft mating with the rudder via a tapered fit much like a prop + shaft)

Ballast (internal on the offshore 40, and various materials. Lead bolt-on on the reliant, with 18 bronze bolts.)

Shape (Slight changes to the ends of the molds on the offshore 40.)

Deck plan (mirror imaged on the offshore 40.)

Layup (Rhodes' specification for the reliant, which included lots of woven roving. Lloyds specification was used for the offshore 40, its a bit thicker apparently and uses no woven roving. Interestingly enough, the offshore 40s have seen blister issues whereas in general the Reliants have not.)

Hull and deck one layup? I don't think so.

[Don C L]

My friend has a CL Luders 30 and it was built to Lloyd's specs that demanded thick mat, no roving apparently. He hauled out recently and we cleaned out quite a few blisters. The hull is very thick though! BTW who built the Reliants if not Cheoy Lee?

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Don C L

My friend has a CL Luders 30 and it was built to Lloyd's specs that demanded thick mat, no roving apparently. He hauled out recently and we cleaned out quite a few blisters. The hull is very thick though! BTW who built the Reliants if not Cheoy Lee?

All cheoy lee sailboats were built to meet or exceed Lloyds' specs. Of course this was back in the days when Hong Kong tailored suits were for the wealthiest of clients and cheoy lees were primarily built for wealthy westerners. Quality did not have a price since labor was truly dirt cheap. All cheoy lees were built with all metal parts grounded by copper straps(tanks, engine, sea cocks, etc.). Blisters were an irritation, but nothing that a vinyl ester coat could not correct.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Don C L

My friend has a CL Luders 30 and it was built to Lloyd's specs that demanded thick mat, no roving apparently. He hauled out recently and we cleaned out quite a few blisters. The hull is very thick though! BTW who built the Reliants if not Cheoy Lee?

Cheoy Lee built the Reliants.

[reed1v]

For those folks who want to learn a lot about the Rhodes Reliant, the following website, which has been around for decades, is the best:

Rhodes Reliant Offshore 40 Sailboat Home Page