Winter storage prep for northern Great Lakes area

[Mike OReilly]

All good comments from others .

Anti-freeze: We collect the ethylene glycol that is used in the engine. Just put a pail below the exhaust and run the engine a short time on land (30 seconds or so). Propylene glycol is non-toxic, so ends up in the environment. I've never seen anyone attempt to collect it, or complain about it, but your situation may be different in WI.

Batteries: If you can remove them and take them home so they can remain on a trickle charge, that is probably the best. But that's often hard to impossible. My approach is to fully charge the batteries, then disconnect all the leads at the battery posts. My batteries (standard FLA) have always been fine when I return in the Spring.

Cover: It sounds like you're in an area that can get decent amounts of snow and cold (Superior or Michigan?). Many shrink wrap. I never have, in part because of the cost, but also because I don't like the waste involved. Some yards recycle all the plastic, but it still seems like a lot of waste to me. This is why I prefer to make my own reusable cover. Better still is a proper canvas cover. This allows the boat to breathe.

Some don't cover at all -- this never makes sense to me. And many only cover the cockpit. I've always done the whole boat, but the cockpit is the most important area.

[rslifkin]

Another thing on covering: last winter my boat was kept uncovered but indoors. Only a few hundred $$$ more than outside and shrink wrapped, but no shrink wrap concerns, easier to work on, etc. So might as well. Only issue with being uncovered is having to clean off dust. I'll be doing the same this year.

[montyp]

Lots of good advice here, might be a good idea to leave a couple of mice traps and mice/rat poison around in the boat in the winter. I usually do that and forgot last winter. I ended up with a nest in the genoa.

I prefer tarps for covering - In Minneapolis area here and we get snow and hard frosts pretty late in the year. So it is nice to start prepping the boat with the cover on (warmer too) and be ready for the first day the ice goes out

[Northofwater]

Mike covers it well and he's from Thunder Bay. Paul brings up varmints which most people forget about. Also think about birds which start nests early in the spring.
I'm in Northern Lake Huron so I've learned a few things. If your cockpit is open ensure that the scuppers will stay clear. One autumn the leaves blocked my scuppers and the snow melt/spring rains backed up into the cabin. Also do a sweep of all cabinets/lazarettes, etc for that can of Pepsi that will explode one night in December. I lay my mast on deck stands and then drape a heavy tarp (wonder how many plastic straws your can make from one shrink wrap?) over that but leave the ends open for air flow. I also hookup a small solar panel to a computer fan that I keep in cabin. You can never have enough ventilation and mold never sleeps. In the spring I start my engine on the hard and run the RV antifreeze out of the tanks onto my green lawn. Also inquire about the ground your boat is sitting on. I've seen frost heave nearly topple boats over.

[rslifkin]

On the mold thing, I put a generous quantity of damp rid buckets and bags in the closed up cabin. Usually a hanging bag in every closet and one in each head, plus a big bucket in the salon and each stateroom.

[DanielPerry]

No antifreeze into the water or on the ground, guys.. doesnt matter what kind in my opinion. Take care of what we love.

I think there should be enough diy videos and such to reference online, but what you should look for is winterizing anything that has had water in it that cannot completely drain by gravity alone.

Use the pink stuff (propylene glycol) in potable water systems and whatever in the bilge. However, I have read elsewhere to use NON-prediluted in the bilge so that, if water gets in it does not over dilute what is in your bilge.

I use a tarp over my mast when its down, otherwise I make a ridge-pole out of a small dead-standing cedar tree or something like that. Attach some weights to the edges of the tarp that hang down over the sides (ideally the tarp overhangs the sides by a couple feet. If you weight it down sufficiently you most likely wont get a 'cave-in' situation. I never have, and my set-up has seen some pretty good freezing rain and heavy, deep snow. I live in northern Michigan.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Another thing on covering: last winter my boat was kept uncovered but indoors. Only a few hundred $$$ more than outside and shrink wrapped, but no shrink wrap concerns, easier to work on, etc. So might as well. Only issue with being uncovered is having to clean off dust. I'll be doing the same this year.

If this appeals, indoors heated and unheated may be available. Torresen in Muskegon, Michigan offers this option.

[ben2go]

Lots of good info. Thank you all. The boat PO has been kept it in the same yard every winter where it is. I will be going on his recommendations. However, The boat has developed some minor leaks around the rear stanchions. I have looked at pics and believe the chain plates (P&S) may be leaking as well. I'm hoping we come to an arrangement soon so I can take the boat before snow flies and starts to pile up. Next summer, she'll be brought down to the south where the weather is a bit warmer over winter.

[billdre]

There's already plenty of accurate information in this thread, however, for the sake of full discussion. I would add a couple items. Myboat is in New Bedford, MA so there are lots of below freezing days and high winds.
Batteries - My AGM house and FLA starter batteries stay on the boat after being brought up to full charge. All switches off, including the automatic bilge pump setting. I've had the same batteries for 7 years. They're ready to go in the Spring. Have never been below about 12.8v in Spring.
Cover - I have a canvas cover that was made specifically for my boat so it fits around stanchions and goes completely over the toe rail. It coast me essentially $2,000. for a 28 ft. boat. It take me two hours to put it on or take it off. No snow stays on it.
Water systems - This is going to get me in trouble but it's been my practice for 10 years under the same winter conditions. I do not use any anti-freeze in my fresh water system, head or bilge. My auxiliary is an outboard and it comes off the boat and goes into storage to be professionally winterized. I have power water to a galley sink and a head sink. I have the system empty itself being very diligent to be sure it spits the last water it can out of the system. Then I open both faucets. Repeat, open both faucets. Plus remove the inline filter that sits between the water tank and the pump. All lines are now open and not closed, therefore any little bit of water that freezes simply expands within the line. I'm a small boat it might not work on something with a lot more plumbing.The same with the head, all possible water out, holding tank empty. Whatever water is left doesn't hurt anything.
Bilge - empty it of all water. My bilge is not deep but wide and shallow, water accumulates and freezes over the winter but has plenty of surface into which to expand. Again nothing is damaged including the bulge pump impeller.
Contents - Nothing is left in the cabin or cockpit that will absorb water, no sails, no cushions, no towels, no books, it all goes before the boat comes out of the water.
FWIW.

[DanielPerry]

Originally Posted by billdre

There's already plenty of accurate information in this thread, however, for the sake of full discussion. I would add a couple items. Myboat is in New Bedford, MA so there are lots of below freezing days and high winds.
Batteries - My AGM house and FLA starter batteries stay on the boat after being brought up to full charge. All switches off, including the automatic bilge pump setting. I've had the same batteries for 7 years. They're ready to go in the Spring. Have never been below about 12.8v in Spring.
Cover - I have a canvas cover that was made specifically for my boat so it fits around stanchions and goes completely over the toe rail. It coast me essentially $2,000. for a 28 ft. boat. It take me two hours to put it on or take it off. No snow stays on it.
Water systems - This is going to get me in trouble but it's been my practice for 10 years under the same winter conditions. I do not use any anti-freeze in my fresh water system, head or bilge. My auxiliary is an outboard and it comes off the boat and goes into storage to be professionally winterized. I have power water to a galley sink and a head sink. I have the system empty itself being very diligent to be sure it spits the last water it can out of the system. Then I open both faucets. Repeat, open both faucets. Plus remove the inline filter that sits between the water tank and the pump. All lines are now open and not closed, therefore any little bit of water that freezes simply expands within the line. I'm a small boat it might not work on something with a lot more plumbing.The same with the head, all possible water out, holding tank empty. Whatever water is left doesn't hurt anything.
Bilge - empty it of all water. My bilge is not deep but wide and shallow, water accumulates and freezes over the winter but has plenty of surface into which to expand. Again nothing is damaged including the bulge pump impeller.
Contents - Nothing is left in the cabin or cockpit that will absorb water, no sails, no cushions, no towels, no books, it all goes before the boat comes out of the water.
FWIW.

Probably the best advice on here so far. I'll probably be following some of yours.
I do like the antifreeze in the bilge just in case.. but I also have never had any water get in there and probably am just pumping out the antifreeze I put in come spring.
Good call with the items that absorb moisture, I also do the same.
Im wondering now if it'd be helpful to pressurize the plumbing with an air pump after all valves are opened to make certain there is nothing left? Just a thought.. I dont know if that'd get any water out anyway, and as you said any water left over will expand unimpeded.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by DanielPerry

Im wondering now if it'd be helpful to pressurize the plumbing with an air pump after all valves are opened to make certain there is nothing left? Just a thought.. I dont know if that'd get any water out anyway, and as you said any water left over will expand unimpeded.

Living for many years in Minnesota I have winterized many cabins, RVs, boats, fountains, pools, sprinkler systems, livestock waterers, hydronic heating systems, etc. as well as dealing with the aftermath when they weren't winterized or weren't winterized successfully.



I have had badly designed valves freeze and burst after being thoroughly blown out because they had pockets where water would accumulate.


I have had low spots in freeze-proof lines burst because of the cumulative effects of daily freezing and thawing in spring and fall.


When it comes to water systems I don't believe there is anything that will work 100% of the time. The very best you can do is to blow the lines with compressed air, then fill with antifreeze. Optionally blow the lines again since that will get more antifreeze into the drains/holding tanks where it will do some good.


That said I've seen jugs of marine/rv antifreeze frozen solid and bulging in below zero weather. I've bought 5 gallon buckets of boiler antifreeze that are 95%+ propylene glycol which will stay liquid to -30 but cost 5 times as much. At some point it's cheaper to replace a valve or two.


And so ultimately winterizing is a numbers game. You have to decide whether the reduced wear and tear and reduced likelihood of damage are greater in value than the cost of installing and removing shrink wrap. Or if you are better off with heated inside storage. Or leaving the boat in Aruba. Or whether it's worth it to have the mast unstepped. Ultimately it's a personal decision based on your risk tolerance, the value of your boat, how much work you can do yourself, and the local climate.

[boatpoker]

Owned cruising boats in Ontario since 1994. Never did more than drain my potable water system for winter .... never had a problem.

A properly designed system with a drain valve at the lowest point is all it takes.

[Mike OReilly]

I think it really depends on where you are, and what kind of winter you experience. During my decade+ in Thunder Bay I knew of no boat that didn't use antifreeze to ensure there was no water in the plumbing or engine systems. Up there we experienced real winters with prolonged hard freezes.

When I was in southern Ontario (Lake Ontario) I was able to be less diligent. Some years just drain and open everything. Generally winters aren't that harsh as far as cold down there, although they are wetter and muckier.

I've seen engine blocks cracked and many pumps and facets ruined due to poor winterizing. If you can be sure you're getting all the water out then there's no need for antifreeze, but in my experience it's hard to know for sure. This is why it's more effective to use antifreeze.

[LakeSuperior]

You will need to run RV antifreeze up through the water intake on the head till it flows into the bowl. Especially for an electric toilet like a Sealand Vacuflush. And as mentioned previously, wash some antifreeze downstream through the system to the holding tank to preserve the pump and plumbing.

If you use a blue plastic Walmart type tarp to cover a couple things to consider.

Secure each grommet with a line through it. If unsecured the wind will cause them to flap against the hull. In one winter they can eat their way through the gel coat and hull.

Secondly, as every trucker knows you will want lines to go all the way over and around the boat and plastic, width wise. Space them every two feet or so. These exterior lines will prevent the plastic from flapping and destroying the cover. They keep the plastic secure. This advice goes for canvas also.

When setting up on the cradle make sure zero boat weight is carried by the pads. They are just to stabilize and prevent the boat from tipping over. All the weight should be on the keel. This is important as the cradle may rack as it may deferentially settles into the soil or the soil heaves. You will end up putting excess pressure on small area of the hull. I set my pads finger tight.

[Nicholson58]

Several of the boats in our yard that had deep keel sumps installed a bronze pipe with internal pipe thread and NPT bronze internal hex drive plug. Pull the plug on the hard, no water in the bilge.

On Sourcing the antifreeze, shop anywhere but the chandlery. We see it in Home Depot, hardware stores, auto parts, RV supply, groceries in Michigan. Presently about $4.00 to $6.00 per gallon