With inmast furling do you need a trysail

[ilenart]

Just crossed the Great Australian Bight and for about 36 hours we had 30-50 knot winds and furling the main to 1/3 to match the staysail worked fine. We also had one section for about 4 hours where we had 40-50 knots and about 3/4 of the main out (forecast was for winds to decrease!) and also had no problems. Do not carry a trysail, though we do have a spare small main that fits into the track near to the furling slot, have never used.

Ilenart

[Silverfox]

I find it interesting the number of posts that are made by sailors warning of the dangers of in-mast furling whilst happily using jib/genoa furling!

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Silverfox

I find it interesting the number of posts that are made by sailors warning of the dangers of in-mast furling whilst happily using jib/genoa furling!

Not the same thing at all. The issues people are afraid of with a furling main is when it gets stuck in the gap in the mast. This is not an issue with furling foresails.

[Hoodsail]

Mike, that is a big boat, your C57 - you've got 20 ft on me...I am a Skip Novack fan so keeping it simple is my watchword & mostly sail singlehanded...off shore acouple times but search out small craft advisories for heavy weather experience. No in-mast furling experience here so cant speak to it. Investigated a tri-sail and decided on a 3rd, deep reef in my main and reinforced the head. The deep reef just more attractive alternative versus adding another track & securing sail to deck near the mast. Did add a re-movable forestay for a storm jib. 30-35 knots and greater of wind on my sail plan is significant so for your 57 footer, would definitely have a method to significantly shorten sails & practice a few times. May never need it but....provides some nice peace of mind..

[Brendan]

I have a new-to-me 1991 Taswell 49 All Season that came with Selden in-mast furling. if I had the choice, I'd have not had in-mast furling. Been up the mast twice to unjam the mainsail, which I've now replaced with a new sail. Am thinking of perhaps entering in the Fastnet race, and for that I'd be required to have a storm trysail. At least the Selden mast has a track for it, and I think it would probably be good to have one even if I don't enter the Fastnet.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

Hi All,

Thinking about taking my boat off shore and considering the upgrades required. I plan to sail the trade winds and considering what sails I need. For heavy weather my question is do I need to invest in a storm trysail or given the infinite reefing that is available from a furling mainsail will this be sufficient. Also following the trade winds most sailing will be on a broad reach or down wind. Appreciate your thoughts. Mike

You don't say where your going or how long the voyage which would impact my decision. I did a roundtrip to Hawaii during the late May-August recommended season and elected not to get a trysail. On the return we went through a gale traversing the Graveyard of the Pacific hove-to with staysail plus max reefed main and came out OK. So, you never know what the weather gods are going to throw at you.

If I were going further (deep Pacific/circumnavigation) I would install one just to give myself one more option if I were tested...it should make the crew happy as well. I could always resell it when I returned to reduce my overall voyage expense.

It is good that you are considering upgrades. I would recommend so time thinking of possible failures and how you would handle them. I once experienced a complete power failure and pat myself on the back for having installed a windwave, portable VHF, and Garmin handheld plus a large stack of AA batteries...I was solo and it saved my bacon.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[CarinaPDX]

Carina has hanked-on headsails and a main with slides on boom and mast. I installed a separate track with trysail when building the boat. On occasion I have used the storm staysail but never the trysail - I never had a need in really heavy going to do anything but run. I did use a deep third reef with staysail or storm staysail for other headings in stiff winds, but of course not survival conditions.

The advantages of the trysail are that it has a low center of effort and allows the boom to be lashed in the gallows. It is basically a one trick pony - very useful if you can't run off in very strong winds but not useful otherwise. If you are one of those sailors that feels the need to sail the Great Southern Ocean, the tropics in cyclone/hurricane season, or high latitudes in winter then you probably want one. If you are conservative and avoid those areas at those times then probably not.

Greg

[Searles]

Break the boom or goose neck your fancy in boom fuller is done,break out the trysail ,on its own track ,sheeted to the rail , all good again ,every well set up offshore vsl needs a try sail and the knowledge of how to use it .⛵️⚓️

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Searles

Break the boom or goose neck your fancy in boom fuller is done,break out the trysail ,on its own track ,sheeted to the rail , all good again ,every well set up offshore vsl needs a try sail and the knowledge of how to use it .⛵️⚓️

The OP has in-MAST, not in-boom furling.


If God forbid he breaks his gooseneck, he can furl in the main to the appropriate size and sheet it to the rail

[argonauta1]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

So we are walking down the dock one day and stop to look at a stunning 65’ yacht. The captain a lifelong sailor and his athletic son. They were headed to the shipyard to remove their in mast furling main mast. The mechanism jammed at sea in heavy weather. He told us they thought they would not just loose the rig, but their lives. His son fixed a knife to a pole, stood on the boom and slashed the mainsail. Competent sailors, seaworthy offshore vessel. Absolutely no doubt in my judgement about the truthfulness in their story. Lesson learned the hard way.
In mast furling in a large ocean going yacht ? Not a risk we are willing to take as any substantial mechanical failure can jeopardize the survival of the vessel itself.
Any fool can set a sail. Getting it down is another matter.
Captain Mark and the manatee crew.

Could not agree more. During a circumnav we heard of several folks in trouble with in-mast furling. We found a storm jib served us better than a trysail by the way. Often we would sail in heavy weather with just the storm jib.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by argonauta1

Could not agree more. During a circumnav we heard of several folks in trouble with in-mast furling. We found a storm jib served us better than a trysail by the way. Often we would sail in heavy weather with just the storm jib.

In every scenario including battened mains , partly battened mains , stack packs , single line , double line reefing , there are failure modes. Everything can fail and that failure might imperil the boat.

Having sailed with loads of in mast systems and even though my latest is a stack pack single line slab reffing , I’d prefer in mast any day. Much easier to handle.

The risks of having to man handle a big sail at the mast in heavy weather outweighs the risk of jams in my opinion. For short handed crews in mast wins hands down.

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed. And the other advantage is that the center of effort of the deeply reefed furling mainsail moves forward, and there's nothing piled up on the boom to cause windage. This is a big advantage in really strong conditions.



My staysail (my boat is a cutter) is made of extra heavy cloth and is cut flattish, for use as a storm jib. It is on the same size of furler (Furlex S400) as the yankee, so way oversized for that sail.



In really wild conditions I am using the staysail plus very small bit of mainsail, and all this sail area is fully self tacking, is low, and concentrated around the mast. This is an extremely stable, easy to manage configuration.



Anything too strong for that and I'm going to be running off. Then the mainsail goes away entirely. At some point I will pop the JSD and get rid of all sail.

That's how we run our Taswell 49. Our in-mast furler is a Forespar and the bottom bearing surfaces were ate up after 30 years (boat was just moved to California) so had that rebuilt, so now can hand pull the sail in and out, better than I ever remember. With welding, machining, and parts was $700. So can make it act like a trysail.

Also had main's sheet pulley (outhaul runs through) replaced and sail cloth gone over, lots of force there.

Our staysail (Harken Furler) foot is cut so that the sheet is about 7 foot off the deck when sail is fully ran out, so that visibility is good and that deck spray stays mainly off of it. The staysail tack is on a pennant that is three foot above the lower swivel. This sail is for heavy air, not for adding sail to win a race to windward. It is sheeted inboard the shrouds though.

[Hasbeen]

53,000 miles off shore. Carried a storm trysail all the way. Never had it out of the bag. On the few occasions when it would have been useful, getting it out, up & in use looked very dodgy.


I covered at least 1000 miles under storm jib [140Sq Ft] only & found that quite satisfactory. Sailed under it only for 700 miles of one 1100 passage, but never had to try to beat of a lea shore with it in really heavy weather.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Hasbeen

53,000 miles off shore. Carried a storm trysail all the way. Never had it out of the bag. On the few occasions when it would have been useful, getting it out, up & in use looked very dodgy.

I covered at least 1000 miles under storm jib [140Sq Ft] only & found that quite satisfactory. Sailed under it only for 700 miles of one 1100 passage, but never had to try to beat of a lea shore with it in really heavy weather.

Yes, it's worth saying, that in really gnarly conditions you will usually be running off unless you really screwed the pooch and ended up without enough sea room.



Running off you will anyway prefer to be running under a storm jib or some other kind of reduced headsail, alone, without any sail behind the mast.



These makes it even less likely you will need the trysail.

[Cheechako]

I dont think you need a trysail. I have had them twice. But really, you are probably fine without one on normal mainsail boats. The complication, setting up, etc for a very low chance of using it are not worth it.
However on in mast furled boats, there is the risk that you jam the mainsail, especially in wild weather where perfect control while furling in unlikely. . Not sure the trysail helps in this situation if you cant get the main furled either. You need a method to cut the mainsail away somehow.

However, if you use caution, take care, use weather info and plan well the likelihood of getting in a big blow is low.