15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

5" thick, your joking, right.

Yes I'm serious about 5 inches thick . Have hit and run right off of a log in the middle of the night and all I did was jar a few cups off the shelf and scratch the bottom paint im still about 3 inches at the waterline . But like I said in the stem . However in the original advertising they said they were bulletproof and shot a 45 at it to prove it was .

They just don't build them that way anymore.

[smj]

Originally Posted by newhaul

My stem is about 5 inches thick st the sheer so I doubt i would suffer damage from a shipping container especially st 6 to 7 knots

I’m pretty sure I would do significant damage if that were the case on our cat. But I’m also sure we wouldn’t sink and would probably be able to sail away.

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I expect that pitch polling due to collision is quite possible



.

The rudders are intact, the sail drives are intact, the centreboards are intact, neither board appears to have been driven aft tearing the case, bows appear fine from other pictures. Please explain the physics of a collision causing This boat to capsize.

Yep , too much rag up and a sudden stop as one is driven into the back of a wave will make things interesting, but that’s the skippers fault for carrying excess sail for the conditions, not some mythical UFO.

[smj]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Yes I'm serious about 5 inches thick . Have hit and run right off of a log in the middle of the night and all I did was jar a few cups off the shelf and scratch the bottom paint im still about 3 inches at the waterline . But like I said in the stem . However in the original advertising they said they were bulletproof and shot a 45 at it to prove it was .



They just don't build them that way anymore.

There’s a story of a PDQ 36 that flipped while being towed by the CG. The CG decided it would be prudent to scuttle the PDQ so it wasn’t a hazard to navigation. They shot over 1000 rounds into the PDQ with their deck mounted machine gun and it refused to sink. They finally had to chop it up with axes. Now that’s bulletproof!

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

The rudders are intact, the sail drives are intact, the centreboards are intact, neither board appears to have been driven aft tearing the case, bows appear fine from other pictures. Please explain the physics of a collision causing This boat to capsize.

Yep , too much rag up and a sudden stop as one is driven into the back of a wave will make things interesting, but that’s the skippers fault for carrying excess sail for the conditions, not some mythical UFO.

Do you see the port daggerboard? I doubt you could see any damage from this angle/distance.

Matt

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by smj

There’s a story of a PDQ 36 that flipped while being towed by the CG. The CG decided it would be prudent to scuttle the PDQ so it wasn’t a hazard to navigation. They shot over 1000 rounds into the PDQ with their deck mounted machine gun and it refused to sink. They finally had to chop it up with axes. Now that’s bulletproof!

Would love to see that report.
Total side note my boat is built to MORC standards of the day :biggrin self righting and supposed to be unsinkable ( don't want to test that one)

[smj]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Would love to see that report.

Total side note my boat is built to MORC standards of the day :biggrin self righting and supposed to be unsinkable ( don't want to test that one)

The Adventure Ends

This column was very difficult for me to write. On March 19, Phil and I watched in horror as the Coast

Guard shot a thousand rounds of 50 caliber machine gun shells into our sinking boat so she would not be

remain a hazard to navigation. She had been listing severely to starboard for several hours and had finally

flipped over as she was being towed behind the Coast Guard Cutter Northland.

Three days earlier, we had left Isla Mujeres, Mexico, bound for Florida. We were motoring rather than

sailing due to unfavorable winds and a opposing current. Suddenly, one of the engines began to lose

power and then failed. About 30 minutes later, the other engine followed suit. This indicated a fuel

problem of some kind, so Phil began trying to determine the cause. The seas were five to eight feet,

causing enough hobby-horsing that it was difficult for him to stay down in the engine room more than a

few minutes at a time. He persevered long enough to change the fuel filters on each engine several times,

bleed the fuel lines, even take fuel directly from a clean Jerry can of fuel to rule out dirty fuel. Nothing

worked, and the strong diesel smell and high seas soon took their toll on both of us. We raised the sails,

but could not make any headway.

We were only about 40 miles from Cuba and we used the VHF radio to hail any nearby boats that might

give us a tow. Two boats responded to our “Pan Pan” on the radio, but both were deep draft boats that

couldn’t get us anywhere near the Cuban coast. Finally, we sent a text to our sons on a satellite texting

device that our younger son had gotten for us. After calls to many agencies, they reached the Coast

Guard, who said they had a cutter about 300 miles south of us that would head our way to see if they

could assist us.

Exhausted from so many hours without rest and disheartened by our lack of choices, we decided we had

to get some sleep. We lit up the boat with running lights plus a strobe light at the top of the mast to make

sure other boats could see us, and fell into bed.

Late the next morning, the Coast Guard cutter arrived on the horizon. They first sent a small boat with a

crew of three diesel mechanics to determine if they could fix our engines. They worked on the diesels for

nearly two hours but, like Phil, could not get them started.

Those three returned to the cutter and three very experienced sailors were sent to see if they could help us

sail toward Florida. The cutter would shadow us on the way. The sailing crew didn’t have much more

luck than we had. They got us moving north about three knots, then the wind died. They also discovered

a steering problem that was going to make sailing more difficult.

Finally, it was determined that we should board the cutter and the Coast Guard would tow the boat to Key

West. We set about securing the boat. I managed to close the hatches on the port (left) side of the boat,

but the crew members told us not to worry about the rest because a special “towing crew” would get the

boat ready. We had earlier noticed the sailing team trying to close the hatches from the outside and

warned them that they must close them securely from the inside to make them tight. The Coast Guard

crew instructed us to get two days of clothes, toiletries and any medication we needed and get aboard the

small boat to be transported to the cutter.

Once on board the cutter, we were treated like honored guests. The Coast Guard personnel could not

have been nicer. They took us to the flight deck to see how they were towing our boat and pointed out

that a crew member would be stationed there around the clock to make sure the boat was okay. They

even set up a special light so they could see watch it at night. The tow line was long, about 100 yards. We

noticed that water was flowing over the bow of our boat as she bobbed in the waves.

We were given a small stateroom on the boat, had dinner with the officers, then went to bed. The next

morning, when we returned to the flight deck, we noticed that Sunshine appeared to be listing to starboard

a little. Phil pointed it out to the guard on boat watch who assured us that she was fine. Later that

afternoon the captain sent word that Sunshine wasn’t doing so well and we should come back to the flight

deck. We were astonished to see that she was listing severely to starboard, the same side we were told

they would secure. At the same time, we noticed that one of the starboard hatches on the foredeck was

open. Waves were flowing over the foredeck and into the open hatch. The reality of the situation became

clear and we knew we were going to lose her. Several hours later, she had flipped completely over.

At that point, the captain told us that they could not leave her floating in the middle of the ocean. We

were still many hours from Key West and he said they had no choice but to sink her completely. The

machine gun barrage lasted nearly an hour. She still didn’t totally sink until they sent a crew out with fire

axes to finish her off.

We arrived in Key West the next morning. We had lost everything on the boat except what we took with

us: two changes of clothes, our passports and our telephones. Phil also had the foresight to grab his

wallet. We had assumed we would be getting back on board when we arrived in Key West.

Now back home in Indiana, we have spent our time trying to make sense of what happened, shopping for

new summer clothes, and making lists for the insurance company of all our personal property that went

down with the boat. Our hearts are broken, but we are thankful to be safe, and life goes on. I cannot

imagine a future that does not include sailing. Phil is already talking about getting an RV and continuing

our adventures on land. Maybe we will compromise and do both.

I have enjoyed writing about our travels and have appreciated your kind comments. When we get ready

to continue our adventures, you will be the first to know.

[Jim Cate]

Did the PDQ 36 in question have foam floatation? Or air tanks/watertight bulkheads to provide floatation in case of flooding? Or thick coring in the hulls? What was keeping her afloat with hundreds of bullet holes piercing her?

Heartbreaking story, but one that leaves me confused as to what really happened.

Jim

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by fxykty

We have IIRC only three well-publicised instances in over 5 years involving performance cruising catamarans - two CW Atlantics and one TS5. I’m excluding the high performance cruiser/racer catamarans and racing events. That’s not showing a significant risk. We also have instances of charter-type cats floundering and capsizing.

I don’t believe this event is anything to hang onto performance cruising cats particularly. I’m still relaxed about it and have no more trouble sleeping off watch in whatever weather as any other skipper.

Yes.

I found this very interesting article: https://www.yachtingworld.com/news/c...magined-107508

They talk about the Vendee Globe as well and give some support to the cynical thinking that some of the UFO encounters might be invented rather than real. (I'm sure it's better for the brand if 'it broke' due to some external unavoidable reason )

Anyway. Significant support for the idea that the risk of running into (specifically) a container is really small. And they're talking about some products that can make sure the containers sink if they are lost.

Swell.

Containers are out there, they can float, but the likelihood of colliding with one is vanishingly small.

[Tupaia]

If this was a pitch pole - seems possible. Then how much does the current trend for reverse bows contribute to such an event. It would force the bows down rather than a conventional overhanging bow that would promote rising up over the obstruction.

[Sos]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

The rudders are intact, the sail drives are intact, the centreboards are intact, neither board appears to have been driven aft tearing the case, bows appear fine from other pictures. Please explain the physics of a collision causing This boat to capsize.

Yep , too much rag up and a sudden stop as one is driven into the back of a wave will make things interesting, but that’s the skippers fault for carrying excess sail for the conditions, not some mythical UFO.

The skipper said that they saw "carbon debris" in the water after the capsize.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Did the PDQ 36 in question have foam floatation? Or air tanks/watertight bulkheads to provide floatation in case of flooding? Or thick coring in the hulls? What was keeping her afloat with hundreds of bullet holes piercing her?

Heartbreaking story, but one that leaves me confused as to what really happened.

Jim

The PDQ is a lightweight foam cored cat with some built in flotation chambers.
Why are you confused as to what REALLY happened? The article was written by the owner who was present for the entire process. Do you not take her for her word?

[Yihang]

Can you even sink a boat like that? I'm assuming if they hacked the boat apart the parts would just float on their own. Even if it was weighed down it would eventually float up?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

The rudders are intact, the sail drives are intact, the centreboards are intact, neither board appears to have been driven aft tearing the case, bows appear fine from other pictures. Please explain the physics of a collision causing This boat to capsize.



Yep , too much rag up and a sudden stop as one is driven into the back of a wave will make things interesting, but that’s the skippers fault for carrying excess sail for the conditions, not some mythical UFO.

The report stated collision w UFO suspect.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Did the PDQ 36 in question have foam floatation? Or air tanks/watertight bulkheads to provide floatation in case of flooding? Or thick coring in the hulls? What was keeping her afloat with hundreds of bullet holes piercing her?..

If trying to sink a 1kg block of cheddar cheese I suspect that using a rifle to turn it into Swiss cheese wouldn't be so effective. Better perhaps to just tie a box of unspent shells to the block and let it sink that way (albeit less entertaining for the CG crew). Cheese bouyancy off maybe but I think you get the point.