15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Factor

Cats very very rarely capsize sideways over, they are much more likely to pitchpole which gets into a whole different discussion on dynamic hull shapes etc.

“Much more likely”?????

The amount of force required to pitch pole is several times more than that required to capsize. Sure, Hobie 16s and other beach cats pitch pole fairly often, but full size cruising boats?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Continuing a comparison of our Outremer 55L as representative of traditional high performance cruising cats to a TS50 as representative of higher performance racer/cruiser cats. www.multihulldynamics.com.

• SA O55L 1297, TS50 1615
• Disp O55L 11, TS50 7.4
• SA/D O55L 24.5, TS50 39.8
• SSpd O55L 23.0, TS50 15.2
• KSI O55L 38.7, TS50 25.6

But, can we really consider a TS50, or a Gunboat 55, or TS5, and other similar cats with sky high SA/D and very poor stability numbers, as performance cruising cats? Or are these actually racer/cruiser cats that shouldn’t be considered for short handed offshore cruising?

Whilst the SA/D is important it does not give a representation of capsize moment as beam width and bow and keel configuration are ignored.


The KSI number is much more indicative,

[hpeer]

Mention of reverse hows reminded me of a brand new cat that was lost some years ago. IIRC It was built in Long Island, NY and was making a maiden voyage south when caught in a gale.

It was a futuristic look with an almost all glass house. When they found the hull the glass house was gone.

Anyway it had reverse bows and I THINK it suffered steering failure that led to abandonment.

Not sure if this incident is of any interest to this crowd.

Sorry I don't recall name or manufacture.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Mention of reverse hows reminded me of a brand new cat that was lost some years ago. IIRC It was built in Long Island, NY and was making a maiden voyage south when caught in a gale.

It was a futuristic look with an almost all glass house. When they found the hull the glass house was gone.

Anyway it had reverse bows and I THINK it suffered steering failure that led to abandonment.

Not sure if this incident is of any interest to this crowd.

Sorry I don't recall name or manufacture.

Alpha 42

https://wavetrain.net/2014/01/17/hel...g-be-good-too/

[django37]

Originally Posted by fxykty

“Much more likely”?????

The amount of force required to pitch pole is several times more than that required to capsize. Sure, Hobie 16s and other beach cats pitch pole fairly often, but full size cruising boats?

No, most cruising cats has double as much transverse stability as longitudinal stability. But a gust from behind, will be weakened by the boat speeding up - normally ... where a gust while sailing on a beam reach or higher will see the boat speeding up, and will increase the apparent wind

[PaulBartomioli]

Racing cats are much more likely to tip over than commercial cruising boats. Racing Cat: VERY Light, Tall sails, simple physics. Ask Archimedes

[smj]

Originally Posted by PaulBartomioli

Racing cats are much more likely to tip over than commercial cruising boats. Racing Cat: VERY Light, Tall sails, simple physics. Ask Archimedes

If a racing cat is reefed down to equal the sailing speed of a commercial cruising cat it will probably be more stable.

[migaguiar]

The story of collision is just for insurance trigger purpose... so something could/can eventually be paid !! collision? BS (anyhow I don't blame it to try to get the insurance to cover)

[argonauta1]

Another example of a multi hull in an inverted stable position. That is why as a cruiser and not a racer, I'll take a mono hull over a multi hull any day. Another disadvantage of a multi hull it that it is too easy to over power the rig which might have contributed to this disaster. Dismasting under similar circumstance is not uncommon either

[smj]

Originally Posted by migaguiar

The story of collision is just for insurance trigger purpose... so something could/can eventually be paid !! collision? BS (anyhow I don't blame it to try to get the insurance to cover)

Cool, so you were on the cat when it flipped. Please tell us the story as obviously we are dying to know from someone with firsthand knowledge.

[smj]

Originally Posted by argonauta1

Another example of a multi hull in an inverted stable position. That is why as a cruiser and not a racer, I'll take a mono hull over a multi hull any day. Another disadvantage of a multi hull it that it is too easy to over power the rig which might have contributed to this disaster. Dismasting under similar circumstance is not uncommon either

Please produce links to all those cruising cats that have been dismasted.

[PaulBartomioli]

Originally Posted by smj

If a racing cat is reefed down to equal the sailing speed of a commercial cruising cat it will probably be more stable.

Reefing and Racing Catamaran are oxymorons. The pros sail in weather 99% of people would not even consider. And you do not address the issue of it being MUCH lighter in weight. No galley, no saloon, no heads. Stripped down is not even close.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by smj

Please produce links to all those cruising cats that have been dismasted.

Here is one that was caught on camera

https://youtu.be/mxojo8pPpvI

Here's another post dismast

https://youtu.be/82CkA427n2g

[smj]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Here is one that was caught on camera

https://youtu.be/mxojo8pPpvI

Here's another post dismast

https://youtu.be/82CkA427n2g

Cool, you’ve produced 2 videos of catamarans losing masts in benign conditions, probably due to lack of maintenance, same would happen to any design boat.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by smj

Please produce links to all those cruising cats that have been dismasted.

Here's another

https://youtu.be/A1ZgCCx5UNI

And a flipper

https://youtu.be/7zFo5NtC4JE