2 or 3 reef points???

[aj676]

We are beyond excited by all the feedback. Thank you ALL so much. There is a lot of food for thought here and a really intriguing mix of boats! Our initial idea was that 3 would be too much/too messy but setup is key, obviously. The option and safety factor is important to us. So many great points to both things we’ve thought of and things we hadn’t. We’ve got a friend that is a great resource (multihull designer/engineer) that we can noodle and discuss all these great points and help make a final decision. Again, thanks for sharing your experience. It’s so very appreciated!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by aj676

We are beyond excited by all the feedback. Thank you ALL so much. There is a lot of food for thought here and a really intriguing mix of boats! Our initial idea was that 3 would be too much/too messy but setup is key, obviously. The option and safety factor is important to us. So many great points to both things we’ve thought of and things we hadn’t. We’ve got a friend that is a great resource (multihull designer/engineer) that we can noodle and discuss all these great points and help make a final decision. Again, thanks for sharing your experience. It’s so very appreciated!

I'll put in a vote for 3 reefing points, even though I don't really have any cat experience.

And it makes no difference if you only have 2 sets of reefing lines and hardware.

Normally we rig the 1st and 2nd reef points. We rarely even use either of them in coastal cruising.

But when doing a crossing, even a few hundred miles, we rig 2nd and third reef lines. Speed loss is not the concern, having the boat "happy" at sea in heavy weather is far more important.

I don't know about cats. Did they ever carry storm tri-sails? We had our cruising mains made with a deep third reef so that we would not need a trisail.

Our third reef is about 50% of the luff length.

Finally, in true storm conditions (we've been in a few) ability to reduce sail means the difference between being dangerous and scared and being comfortable.

We have a light boat with a lot of sail area, (similar in concept to some of the cat owners who've answered this thread). We've done a lot of miles with a third reefed main and no headsail.

[Sos]

37' Cat and we have 3 reefs.

It's a bit like a liferaft - you hope you never have to use it but it is there ready anyway

[boatman61]

3 reefs for me as well..

[Redreuben]

2 reefs and a storm trisail, then you can use a cloth weight that matches the wind strength and not blow out the top of your main.

[fxykty]

Our cat is longer and heavier than yours (55’, 25,300#) and we have 3 reefs. In the four years we’ve had the boat in New Zealand and passages to the South Pacific islands and Australia the proportion of time we’ve used full main 40%, 1st reef 35%, 2nd reef 20% and 3rd reef 5%. Our boat is easily driven and doesn’t need a lot of sail area so we tend to reef early. For our new main we specified a deeper reefs, with the third reef leaving 20% mainsail area and only 32% of the luff.

We keep all three reefs rigged all the time (why wouldn’t you?) and use 8mm bare Dyneema as the lines - minimal windage and weight. We use separate clew and tack lines and reef at the mast.

If you need to figure out a reefing guide that’s probably best done by figuring out the wind speeds that generate the same force at each reef as the calculated maximum working load of your full main. Don’t forget to include your jib/genoa areas as well. Our reefing guide is based on apparent wind speed and goes full main + full jib, 1st reef + full jib, 1st reef + staysail, 2nd reef + staysail, 3rd reef + staysail, 3rd reef + storm jib, 3rd reef alone, storm jib alone.

[aj676]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Our cat is longer and heavier than yours (55’, 25,300#) and we have 3 reefs. In the four years we’ve had the boat in New Zealand and passages to the South Pacific islands and Australia the proportion of time we’ve used full main 40%, 1st reef 35%, 2nd reef 20% and 3rd reef 5%. Our boat is easily driven and doesn’t need a lot of sail area so we tend to reef early. For our new main we specified a deeper reefs, with the third reef leaving 20% mainsail area and only 32% of the luff.

We keep all three reefs rigged all the time (why wouldn’t you?) and use 8mm bare Dyneema as the lines - minimal windage and weight. We use separate clew and tack lines and reef at the mast.

If you need to figure out a reefing guide that’s probably best done by figuring out the wind speeds that generate the same force at each reef as the calculated maximum working load of your full main. Don’t forget to include your jib/genoa areas as well. Our reefing guide is based on apparent wind speed and goes full main + full jib, 1st reef + full jib, 1st reef + staysail, 2nd reef + staysail, 3rd reef + staysail, 3rd reef + storm jib, 3rd reef alone, storm jib alone.

Excellent info. Thanks so much.

[captstu]

I had mt 42' Voyage cat rigged with two reef points and had a self-tending storm jib built to go on the inner forestay and designed to fly without the main up at all.

On a crossing from Cape Town to Barbados, my crew laughed when we set the storm jib "just in case". The two reef points on the main were both led to the cockpit as was the control lines for the furling on the jib.

Experienced 5+ days at 6-7 knot during an extended heavy blow. The main was down and lashed to the boom, the jib was surled and safety lashed, and the storm jib kept the boat at speed and balanced nicely for the autopilot.

Sailing downwind in jybe conditions with a reefed main is just no fun. When the storm job jibed - once or twice a day - we did nothing, it self tended, the auto pilot easily corrected, and no one left the cockpit.

This may not be the fastest way to sail in heavy weather - but we remained largely comfortable, were normally able to sleep, and we felt as safe as could be expected in heavy wind.

I don't think a third reef would have accomplished that - and I don't think the sail strength was sufficient to handle several days of high wind usage. Save the main - a storm jib is cheap (relatively), we didn't even bother taking the control lines to the cockpit, just cleated them midships - and it did fine for days, sometimes getting over 10 knots.

[FlyingScot]

When we bought our North 3Di we opted for two reefs. Cheaper and simpler. Less drag when hoisting the main. We did opt for deeper reefing points. Since not all sails are the same shape I think it’s better to discuss in area of reduction or remaining after reef or percentage of sail area.
Sail area: 55.15 m2 Reef 1: 40.26m2 Reef 2: 24.38 m2. We have a square top.

[Moontide]

Adding a third reef to your should be very cheap and, IMHO, is worth the few extra $ even if never used.

[Cynara]

That is basically what we did. The 1st reef was much deaper than normal, because when the wind picks up it will usually get stronger before it gets lighter. Wast of. Time to put multiple reefs in about an hour.

[Cheyne]

We just ordered our new main sail for our Lagoon 380 and we opted to get 3 reef points in the sail, but are only rigging two of them for now. This was based on the recommendation from our the sail maker. If we need the 3rd reef we can have it rigged when we are doing more offshore sailing.

[PedroPV]

I once (only once), passing Cape St. Vincent (southwest corner of Europe), with 50 + knots of northwind had to use the third reef + storm jib and later to lower the mainsail and hoist the storm trysail. This is a very good alternative.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

We just ordered our new main sail for our Lagoon 380 and we opted to get 3 reef points in the sail, but are only rigging two of them for now. This was based on the recommendation from our the sail maker. If we need the 3rd reef we can have it rigged when we are doing more offshore sailing.

Clearly this is an option. But ask yourself- when do you rig #3? Only on a 3 day passage? Or a 4?

If you spent the money on the reef, just rig it. Trying to go out on deck in conditions that warrant a third to rig it will be daunting. Once the emotional hurdle of getting out there is overcome, it is physically demanding. Whereas having #3 rigged and ready to go isn’t

Just my semi-humble opinion

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Snore

Clearly this is an option. But ask yourself- when do you rig #3? Only on a 3 day passage? Or a 4?

If you spent the money on the reef, just rig it. Trying to go out on deck in conditions that warrant a third to rig it will be daunting. Once the emotional hurdle of getting out there is overcome, it is physically demanding. Whereas having #3 rigged and ready to go isn’t

Just my semi-humble opinion

Certainly if you have three sets of sheaves in the boom for three reefing lines you can rig it. However that is a lot of line falling down in to theboat when taking the main down and dealing with it when hoisting.

Anyhow, we have rigging for just two. For sailing around the bay we rig reef 1 & 2.

For going out into the ocean we rig 2 & 3. This of course give up a little sailpower since we have no first reef option, but 2nd reef still works pretty good if it is windy.

But importantly, the third reef is ready of you need it.