2012 Round The Island Race (& Gemini capsize)

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

...these lads, pushed too hard and paid for it.
.

So tell us then.

We have been waiting for specifics on winds, waves, sail set.

Could you give us the rest of the details please?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Therapy

So tell us then.

We have been waiting for specifics on winds, waves, sail set.

Could you give us the rest of the details please?

~From memory, gusty F6 from the south west. Water temp 16c. Wave shape would have been a function of tide and wind. HW Portsmouth 0829 hrs (BST). This would have given them strong wind over tide conditions at the back of the island.

[foolishsailor]

As I said in my previous post in this thread...

We were racing a quarter tonner and ended up retiring right at the needles due to equipment issues. Which is the end of the upwind leg after which you make a left turn for the sleigh ride to follow. Three of our class lost their masts and one lost ther rudder. It was a tough day out.

The conditions were as follows...

Solid 25-30 with gusts up to 35. On the back side of the isle of wight where this boat tripped it was gusting up to 40.

As we didn't sail the back side I can only pass on the info we got from the pre race weather briefing which stated that there were also 3m swells with wind chip on top.

These are perfect conditions for a boat over pressed to trip.

I believe if you read the thread that you will also see the father of the 10year old who was on the boat report their experience.

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by Therapy

So tell us then.

We have been waiting for specifics on winds, waves, sail set.

Could you give us the rest of the details please?

Oh, and in response to what seems like your snarky comment?..

When sailing a cat or tri in these conditions you would, as I said previously, have the spinny sheet manned and ready for immediate release as well as the vang and main sheet. When the leeward bow looked like it was N any way going to dig you ease the spinny and main.

If you got a sudden trip, like this boat did you blow all three and you will likely recover. As you can see in the video clip, the spinny was not released, the main was not released, the vang was not released.

[Islander]

Foolishsailor - As I understand it, they were sailing west, upwind, on the North side of the island, and with the tide - is this correct? (Is this what you refer to as the "back of the island"?)

If so, they would not have had a spinnaker up, and the Gem does not come with a vang. I don't think we're going to get a first-hand account from the skipper/owner.

As a matter of interest, how did you avoid sailing this leg, are there multiple start points?

Cheers

[foolishsailor]

I dont know where you heard that as it is not true.

Here is the video, really a series of pictures, showing the capsize.

http://www.cowesonline.com/d/Round%2...Race%20Lge.mov

It was posted earlier in the thread. If people would read threads fully before commenting there would be so much less confusion...

The Isle of Wight, is shaped like a diamond on its side. The first leg from the start goes from cowes south west to a point on the diamond called The Needles after this you make a turn and head south east to st catherines point . This is where the boat flipped.

[Sos]

The confusion is that you are talking about two different incidents. The Tri was RTIR 2011 and happened south of the island and the Gemini was this years race and happened of Hurst

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Oh, and in response to what seems like your snarky comment?..

When sailing a cat or tri in these conditions you would, as I said previously, have the spinny sheet manned and ready for immediate release as well as the vang and main sheet. When the leeward bow looked like it was N any way going to dig you ease the spinny and main.

If you got a sudden trip, like this boat did you blow all three and you will likely recover. As you can see in the video clip, the spinny was not released, the main was not released, the vang was not released.

Yea, it was snarky.

sorry.

I thought I had been following this thread but I have not seen any details about exactly how the boat was being manned. Only people saying what should have been done. What was the video that shows these lines? I must have missed that. I saw the one of a tri in another race in the past. I commented on that too.

Did the Gemini in this race trip by plunging a bow?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

I dont know where you heard that as it is not true.

Here is the video, really a series of pictures, showing the capsize.

http://www.cowesonline.com/d/Round%2...Race%20Lge.mov

It was posted earlier in the thread. If people would read threads fully before commenting there would be so much less confusion...

It seems that we might be talking about two different boats in two different races on different dates.

I am asking about a Gemini in a race this year and specifically how it came about.

Not really interested in a tri from the past as I saw that last year.

I am confused. Were you giving conditions in this years race or the one in the past with the Tri?

If I still seem snarky to you I apologize but you have to understand I (and maybe one or two others) are interested in first hand knowledge from aboard the Gemini in this years race. Not ideas about what might or could have happened on board. I can conjure up plenty of over-wraps, jammed jammers, miscommunication, etc. on my own.

[foolishsailor]

@therapy

No worries. Im not one to flame people so if i am saying something it is usually meant as a genuine contribution and not something to cause trouble.

I must agree i think i may be the one in the wrong.

The video link i posted above came from earlier im the thread and i assumed it was the one and same from this year. Is it not?

Regarding conditions yes those were from this year. I didnt race the RIR last year.

If the gem capsized on the way to the needles then it was up wind with no kite in gusty 25-35kts wind over almost full ebb

[Islander]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

I dont know where you heard that as it is not true.

Here is the video, really a series of pictures, showing the capsize.

http://www.cowesonline.com/d/Round%2...Race%20Lge.mov

It was posted earlier in the thread. If people would read threads fully before commenting there would be so much less confusion...

... or even if they read the thread title

Cheers

[Pete7]

We don't know what time the Gemini started, but here is the tidal atlas showing what they would have faced. HW at Portsmouth as was 0830 hrs local time.

SOLENT TIDES | TIDAL STREAMS | ISLE OF WIGHT

[foolishsailor]

All results including start times arw here

http://www.roundtheisland.org.uk/web...012Results.xls

The only gemini i see listed is:

Gemini105mc "AQUAE SULIS" IRC: 1.019, start time 7:10

We started at 8 and in mid channel halfway to the needles there were currents in excess of 3 knots

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

@

The video link i posted above came from earlier im the thread and i assumed it was the one and same from this year. Is it not?

Per Sos - The Tri was RTIR 2011 and happened south of the island....

I think there is a date on the video too but it has been a while since I looked at it.

I am just still very curious as to exactly how this occured.

It does seem that we will never know the details though.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

All results including start times arw here

http://www.roundtheisland.org.uk/web...012Results.xls

The only gemini i see listed is:

Gemini105mc "AQUAE SULIS" IRC: 1.019, start time 7:10

We started at 8 and in mid channel halfway to the needles there were currents in excess of 3 knots

I have only sailed in Florida and St. Croix (and a couple of lakes in Georgia ) and have never really had to worry much about tides as we just don't have much more than a knot unless entering/leaving a river or some bays.

It must be a real challenge to work that into ..........err......work into that schedule.