2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

[downunder]

Crow,

Have you inspected the Maverick 4oo yet.

Would be useful to have a sumation.

Cheers

[CountingCrows]

Originally Posted by smj

Absolutely hands down the Maverick. Better design better build and MUCH better value. The owner of Maverick seems to stand behind his product, the owner of Lagoon? Would you rather own a Ford or Maserati? Ford builds a ton of cars but I wonder which is better quality.

Thank you smj. But I believe this is a biased information. How does everyone seem to know so much about Maverick? I don't think there are more than 10-15 produced. So whatever you know, is probably being fed by the builders themselves, not real users. Not so with Lagoon.

I cant think of something more relevant, but more than Ford-Maserati, would you consider Corvette - Tesla comparison? Even though Tesla is double price, if you were given the opportunity to buy a used Tesla being the same price with a new Corvette, wouldnt you be choosing the car that sold 1.5 million pieces over 60 years and let the 2000 Tesla owners be the guinea pigs to see if it will stand the test of time? FYI, Tesla Roadster is discountinued in 2011.

CC

[CountingCrows]

Yes I did. It looked like a very bulky and big cat for me.

The quality of materials did not impress me much. FP Lipari 41, which was also 2010 model, looked cleaner and neater and like brand new. Not so with M400.

Engines had 1000 hours on them collectively. There was rust on hinges on the compartment hosting genset in front of the trampoline. Is this expected? I am assuming if there is rust anywhere, it will be everywhere. I do not recall seeing any rust in Lipari.

I had a huge bathtub in the head that caught my eye. I did not like the saloon doors... why to make the whole front of the saloon opening to cockpit from 5-6 different glass panels with huge white aluminium frames between them, I dont know. It does not look modern.

Owner of the boat is a very avid sailor. He sailed himself from Cape Town. He had sun shades all over his boat, and everyone in the marina said he takes very good care of it.

Please take my opinion in the proper context... that I did not own a boat before, so I am not qualified to make reviews. I can just state my personal opinon.

CC

Originally Posted by downunder

Crow,

Have you inspected the Maverick 4oo yet.

Would be useful to have a sumation.

Cheers

[D&D]

Originally Posted by CountingCrows

* How did you assume the M400 is owned by the designer? I am in Dubai. M400 hull number I specified was less than 10. It is actually between 2 and 5, to be more precise.

Ah...it seems your target M400 is NOT Phil Southwell's. So ignore that!

Originally Posted by CountingCrows

* I do not have many options here...I am a beginner...Lagoon dealer was honest and straightforward.

That all sounds VERY relevant in your process!

[D&D]

Originally Posted by CountingCrows

But... no matter if I buy M400 or L380... I know I will get to love it, all thanks to "cognitive dissonance" process of our brain -- when people recognize inconsistent views within themselves, they tend to alter their thinking to remove the conflict.

Absolutely spot on there...and the prefect perspective to apply when searching for vessels!


FWIW tho, we'll make one further 'case' for extending your search. The global market is vast and probably still a buyers' market too. If you stick with the fairly homogenous design production vessels (certainly FP and Lagoon, probably also Leopard) then you can fairly effectively screen and narrow your selection process using model and age and layout. Using a buyer's broker can assist...and seems very appropriate given your description of your own experience. Once you find some suitable targets, the process -- The buyer's broker can help greatly at every stage -- is not that hard...

1. Prioritise your targets then make an offer, subject to survey and sea trials.
2. If your offer is accepted -- perhaps after some more negotiation -- then engage your surveyor.
3. Continue negotiations (or withdraw to your next choice!) based on the surveyor's report.
4. Organise your sea trials, ideally yourself (great excuse for a holiday!) but this can also be engaged out.
5. Organise delivery...shipped or sailed...if sailed, yourself -- We found it the experience of a lifetime! -- or contract delivery pro's. From the sounds of your "effing pirates", however, shipped may be the best option!

That may sound like a bit of effort, BUT it will give you at least a seriously broader selection...and may also give you a MUCH better deal. Both of those advantages could also improve your bargaining position with your current vessel choices. All up, the broader search seems for you (and certainly was for us) worth some effort.

Good luck!

[TOM]

Cats are generally pretty ugly looking things .But the Maverick must take first prize when it comes to ugly......Jesus would you realey want to be seen on one of these. There is one on the hard here at Peaks in Trinadad it has been here for ages the owners atre too embarresed to come and pick it up.

[smj]

Originally Posted by D&D

Maverick = Maserati?!? With great respect to your rights to your own view smj, in our view that is a very big stretch indeed.

Better design? Both Lagoon and Maverick boast solid designer pedigrees. Lagoon's VPLP are probably the higher profile (America's Cup winners, etc) with more vessels behind them, but Maverick's Phil Southwell brings some solid experience and results to his designs as well. Design is also a 'beauty-is-in-beholder' perspective. Some don't like the look of Lagoons and some don't like the look of Mavericks. Either way, hardly a clear outcome.

Better build? Perhaps the argument for Maverick might be something like 'greater personal attention and variation = greater individual result'...and for Lagoon might be 'greater automation and process control = greater control of critical outcomes'. The Maverick process offers a personalised outcome (not all that relevant when buying a used vessel though) whereas the Lagoon process offer a high degree of confidence over important processes. A visit to both factories could easily leave the visitor much happier in a Lagoon. In any event, both are basically production GRP-molded vessels...and in NO way comparable to Ford vs Maserati!

Better value? Maverick wins on the OP's stated choices...hence our slecting the Maverick as well, for purposes of this post. For our vessel choice, however, a 6 mos old L440 absolutely overwhelmed the other available choices (including the M400) for value.

Ford, mass produced, dime a dozen. Maserati, custom built for the purchaser. Not mass produced but built one at a time.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by smj

Ford, mass produced, dime a dozen. Maserati, custom built for the purchaser. Not mass produced but built one at a time.

Fair enough...or at least we see your perspective.

We still say that comparison is a huge stretch, but we probably won't be assisting the OP by going thru our perspective in further detail.

[CountingCrows]

Very strong opinions TOM!

I would take "ugly" any time when i know i can relax and chill instead of being in a rollercoster ride every time i go out to sea. Petrol being $1/gallon, I could take a brand new Yamaha Exult 38 that does 45 knots with its V8 350HP x 2 engines, at half the cost of a cat... But, monohull option was permanently removed from our list after experiencing a ride in it!

CC

Originally Posted by TOM

Cats are generally pretty ugly looking things .But the Maverick must take first prize when it comes to ugly......Jesus would you realey want to be seen on one of these. There is one on the hard here at Peaks in Trinadad it has been here for ages the owners atre too embarresed to come and pick it up.

[CountingCrows]

Honestly speaking, looking, negotiating, surveying, choosing a used one is a lot of hassle for me. I am not a sailor or hobbyist, and I do have a business to run. Too many choices is not a good thing. Look even I am confused on 3 choices (down to 2 actually).

For my usage, I will choose a smaller & new over used & bigger.

M400 price is a real bargain, BTW (Even the new L380 price is good, comparing to what people are asking for their used boats). For sure if the seller puts it up on market, M400 will be snapped quickly. But I have the advantage of being where he is, cash in hand, can complete the deal in an hour's notice.

At this moment, since I am not able to choose, and since I am not able to bring the price of of an L380 any lower, and since my mind is set on the new L380... I will make an offer for M400... $50K less than his asking price. If he accepts, then I will own a M400, if not, he will have made the choice for me

Thank you all so very much for your very valuable opinions.

CC

Originally Posted by D&D

Absolutely spot on there...and the prefect perspective to apply when searching for vessels!



FWIW tho, we'll make one further 'case' for extending your search. The global market is vast and probably still a buyers' market too. If you stick with the fairly homogenous design production vessels (certainly FP and Lagoon, probably also Leopard) then you can fairly effectively screen and narrow your selection process using model and age and layout. Using a buyer's broker can assist...and seems very appropriate given your description of your own experience. Once you find some suitable targets, the process -- The buyer's broker can help greatly at every stage -- is not that hard...

1. Prioritise your targets then make an offer, subject to survey and sea trials.
2. If your offer is accepted -- perhaps after some more negotiation -- then engage your surveyor.
3. Continue negotiations (or withdraw to your next choice!) based on the surveyor's report.
4. Organise your sea trials, ideally yourself (great excuse for a holiday!) but this can also be engaged out.
5. Organise delivery...shipped or sailed...if sailed, yourself -- We found it the experience of a lifetime! -- or contract delivery pro's. From the sounds of your "effing pirates", however, shipped may be the best option!

That may sound like a bit of effort, BUT it will give you at least a seriously broader selection...and may also give you a MUCH better deal. Both of those advantages could also improve your bargaining position with your current vessel choices. All up, the broader search seems for you (and certainly was for us) worth some effort.

Good luck!

[ausaviator]

Personally I would steer well clear of the Maverick because it is built in BALSA core / timber / think Bumfuzzle, Leopard, Charter Cats etc....

Sure there are plenty on here that would argue otherwise on the merits of a timber boat but would you rather a timber core or a solid foam sandwich tried and tested Lagoon?

I can't find the stats for the bridge deck clearance however it looks quite low as with many of the South African cats.

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by CountingCrows

Thank you smj. But I believe this is a biased information. How does everyone seem to know so much about Maverick?

First off...is this guy a Lagoon boat broker? He certainly can not maintain objectivity on this question.

On the two choices given the Maverick is hands down the better choice.

Does anyone know if FP has plans to move their rudder configuration. In another thread on CF an owner is threatening to sue them over loss of control of the rudder before Prop underwater profile FP is building these days.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I would go with the Lagoon - if you can afford the upgrades you want (whether to same spec as the Maverick or not). Not so much for the warranty (a lot of any problems (all new boats have "snags" - you are not buying a new Toyota!) will be equipment related - manufacturers warranties on individual items, difficulties can arise when the problem is claimed on the install. and builder says not, dealer might agree with you but with no budget to fix can't do much)......suing accross borders ain't cheap, even with a slam dunk case (and with boats things are rarely slam dunk).......but my choice primarily because whether you love or hate the boat thing odds are strong that you will be looking to sell at some point (for a new boat (bigger or better - or both!) or for a new hobby!). Can always sell a Ford.

Boats is all about choices - and a lot of head scratching! Welcome to the club!

[ausaviator]

On the two choices given the Maverick is hands down the better choice.

Based on what exactly? The hull materials, the banana style bend in the hulls, the misplaced looking windows above the waterline, the bridgedeck clearance, the davit sun-lounge? But it does look nice inside, especially in their premium fitout one pictured.

[CountingCrows]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

the banana style bend in the hulls

I had difficulty actually getting on M400, because transom stairs are so far off the marina docking. On Lipari 41, I just hopped in. M400 needed a gangplank (owner used something like a flat staircase). I think it would be impossible to dock M400 one person alone.