36' vs 42' cat - comfort in seas and at anchor, fun to sail

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Nor

Thanks, from sailboatdata the Belize is 8,600 kg while Venezia is 6,169 kg. That's just why I'm confused. But maybe the numbers are wrong.

Pretty sure the Venezia is not 6169kg and why the accuracy 69 this sounds more like the advertising department asking the factory and the factory saying we used x amount resin.



There should be some kind of advertising standard for boats, empty weight out of the factory, WL displacement, max displacement. But they are just numbers and a well designed heavy boat (example Catana) can sail and perform better that a poorer design that is lighter.

[catsketcher]

It's not just length

There is more to motion than just length.

One of the biggest bugbears I have with boats is weight in the ends and weight up high. This causes the bows to need more immersion in waves to overcome the increased rotational inertia caused by the weight away from the centre of gyration.

It is a point missed by many. It is great to have a longer waterline, but a smaller boat can be more comfortable than a larger one if the larger one has weighty things like a flybridge, a taller mast to cater for it, water tanks in the bows and heavy storage in the sterns. Getting the weight into the middle does wonders for comfort, but is usually overlooked. I can't stand sailing a boat that has anything heavy in the ends, it makes me sad. I like sailing so much when I sail a nice boat with lower windage, nice foils and sails, and a light dinghy on the stern and nothing in the front 3 metres with all the water tanks within 1.5 metres of 55% of the way aft of the waterline - windward sailing - here we come!

cheers

Phil

[rabbi]

I have owned the Mahe, the Lagoon 380 and the Lagoon 410.

The Mahe is a lovely pocket cat. Great layout for a couple and occasional guest. As soon as you add 2 kids it becomes a bit small, especially the cockpit talble.
Payload can be a problem but if kept light the Mahe is quick footed and reacts immediately to any puff of wind. Add a gennaker and folding props and it's a relatively fast boat in light conditions.
The negative is that the sterns are a bit narrow giving some hobby horse motion when beating into any chop.
I find the build quality is OK. She flexes a lot but I think that is intentional. At least I haven't heard of structural failures. Caveat: The Mahe is know to develop Osmosis (ours was treated a year before we bought and was OK).
Overall a nice boat for a couple, or a holiday boat for a family of four.


The difference between the Mahe and the 380 is bigger than the length numbers seem to indicate. The 380 has more volume, is a sturdier build, heavier and slower to react to gusts, but gives similar end speeds as the Mahe in medium winds. There is no tendency to hobby horse and the boat is faster in stronger winds.
The 380 is for us big enough to liveaboard as a family of four, we would not do that on a Mahe.


I never sailed the Venezia. But I know one thing: The upkeep will cost way more than the Mahe.

[singlespeed]

Don't write off the Lagoon 380 so easily. There is a reason more of them were built and sold than any other cruising catamaran. Like any builder there were some issues with certain years, but I can also remember oil canning issues with FP's. You don't sell that many boats of a single model unless the owners were satisfied.

[Morndenkainen]

Don't forget that the lagoons and leopards were made for the charter market... I've got a leopard 48. I love the amount of space in it, especially in the bathrooms. The problem with the boat is it's big, which makes it a pain in the ass to single hand... That said, it does quite well in rough seas and **** conditions. 9-10ft waves, or 40-50kts of wind right on the beam.

What should you get? Something you can afford to park and walk away from for 6 months out of the year when life gets in the way. Or at least find a slip for... The 25' beam on my cat kills me when it comes to finding a marina sometimes.

[rabbi]

FPs were also made primarily for the charter market so no difference.

If i had the choice between the Mahe and a Venezia I'd choose the Mahe if only for two people.
If free to choose I'd go with the Lagoon 380. Overall it's simply the better package for our use.
But it really depends on the individual boat condition

[Tom and Maje]

We have a 2014 Leopard 40 and are very happy and comfortable.

Maje

[Jim Woodall]

My wife and I liveaboard our Lagoon 42, Ocean Song. We had 25+ years of sailing, chartering, and small boat ownership under our belts when we bought her in 2018. We have found the 41’ waterline to be more than adequate. Offshore from Ft. Lauderdale to the Chesapeake recently we averaged 7.25 knots, 70% of the time under sail. We’ve made numerous offshore passages and we have always averaged above 7 knots. We have a screecher and parasailor (these two sails make a huge difference).

She’s comfortable offshore so long as we’re not sailing in near gale conditions (which we’ve done). We always felt 40’ should be our minimum LWL. At anchor she is generally very comfortable. Our anchor comes off the forward crossbeam which makes her sail much less when anchored than cats with anchors that drop underneath the trampoline.

[rabbi]

One Thing I forgot about the Mahe. Since you mentioned air flow and ventilation in the tropics...
There is none.
There are too few and too small hatches on the Mahe. The deck hatches are those small round ones that not only don't let enough air in buy also have no rain position, so you have to close them completely for the slightest rain. That was one of the biggest complains and if we had kept the boat adding new hatches in the head and saloon would have been our #1 project.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by rabbi

One Thing I forgot about the Mahe. Since you mentioned air flow and ventilation in the tropics...
There is none.
There are too few and too small hatches on the Mahe. The deck hatches are those small round ones that not only don't let enough air in buy also have no rain position, so you have to close them completely for the slightest rain. That was one of the biggest complains and if we had kept the boat adding new hatches in the head and saloon would have been our #1 project.

I think they improved it with the Evolution model, did you have the earlier model? Wouldn't opening the hatch in the bathroom and a small hatch in the aft cabin create a good airflow?

[rabbi]

The Evo model had some improvements re the ventilation issues.
IIRC they added one more hatch to the salon front, and one to the head. Ours was a 2007 and had no overhead hatch in the bathroom, only the big escape hatch close to the waterline.

These small round "hatches" are just too small to create any airflow. Maybe OK if assisted by some hatch wind scoop.

The 380 is much better with proper square Lewmar .