36' vs 42' cat - comfort in seas and at anchor, fun to sail

[Nor]

We currently have a 30' and planning to spend more time on the water so looking at some bigger boats. We won't do long offshore trips but would stay 1-3 months on the boat island hopping.

There is a newer FP Mahe 36 and an older FP Venezia 42 for sale in a similar price range. I think the Mahe 36 would have enough space for us (a couple) and the big bathroom/shower is very nice! But I wonder how much more comfort a longer and wider boat could give in terms of movement while on anchor, and less hobby horsing when sailing into the waves. I've read that the Venezia is slow in light winds, but it's also a bigger boat, so not sure if it would be slower than the Mahe in similar winds. There is also the lagoon380, which is heavier and wider than the Mahe, but not much longer.

We like to sail, and try not to use the engine as long as we can make at least 2-3 knots. I guess the Mahe would be a more fun boat to sail, where we can feel the wind more directly.

[SV Confianza]

Would help to know what years/generations. But generally the longer boat will be faster. Longer waterline means higher hill speed on similar hull designs.

The larger boat will probably be much more stable at anchor.

But, larger boat means higher costs for maintenance, haulout, etc etc. and older also probably means higher costs. So the purchase price being similar won’t mean equal costs.

I’d say go visit both and spend plenty of time there. What looks good on paper is very different than how it feels in person.

[Galumay]

As an owner of a FP Bahia 46', I think you will be happy with either of them. No doubt 6' longer is a much bigger boat, and will be a bit more comfortable - but that is hard to quantify if you are not sailing both of them in the same conditions at the same time!

For the same money the newer boat might be a better deal if its got comparable equipment.

I suspect both would be better than a Lagoon 380.

In the end only you and your wife can tell which one you prefer, they will all do the job and be a significant step up from your 30' boat.

Good luck!

[Chotu]

Without knowing these boats intimately, I can tell you for a fact that the longer water line length will make a difference in your comfort.

The more water line length and beam you have the more comfortable the Catamaran will be.

And I’m not talking about the space on the inside of the boat. That doesn’t matter. I’m talking about how the boat behaves in various conditions.

I don’t think you’ll be looking at too much difference between the two boats in terms of cost unless you are keeping it in a marina berth all the time. 12 linear feet of bottom paint at the bows is not much bottom paint. Slightly larger engines is not that big of a deal in comparison to the ones on the 36. In fact, there isn’t anything that much bigger. They are just slightly bigger and you gain a lot of comfort from the waterline length and beam.

Just yesterday I was marveling at all of the keels I was seeing on the monohulls around me. As their bows were shooting up to the sky, hobbyhorsing in rough conditions at anchor, I was able to see the keels below the boats. I was also seeing keels as they rolled over on their side. The anchorage was extremely uncomfortable. Much more so for them than me.

Most of the boats here don’t have 45 feet or longer waterline length. And you could really see the difference as you got smaller. These people must have felt like they were in a washing machine when in their cabins. And it went on for two days straight. Apparently we have another few days of it coming at the end of the week I guess.

Meanwhile, my boat doesn’t roll whatsoever in these conditions. It stays flat. And it also really doesn’t pitch either. Just does so ever so slightly. That’s just down to not having heavy diesels out at the aft end and having the reverse bows that I added that dampen any pitching right away.

So while the rest of this Anchorage was in a washing machine, I was relatively still. Some of this has to do with water line length and beam.

Since we all spend a lot more time at anchor and in harbors than we do underway, this is an important consideration. I think you’ll find a larger boat makes you enjoy boating more than the smaller one will.

[Eric Jan]

If not already, best is to visit them first to get an overall feeling.

The Venezia is an older design and more modern designs pack a lot more spacious feeling on similar sizes. So it could almost be that the Mahe's moderness might feel just as big as a Venezia.

Greetings a Venezia owner (Netherlands)

[Tupaia]

Sailed both of these and your assessment is about right. The Maha is more "modern" and more fun to sail. The Venezia is a less "modern" and heavier boat that is less fun to sail.

Both are nice boats just different.

[John_Trusty]

Based on just the numbers of sail area and displacement, the Venezia should be a more powerful boat. Venezia has considerably more sail area for an additional ton of displacement. Of course, these are factory numbers, not actually loaded real-world sailing numbers. The smaller boat will be more affected by the extra ton of real-world stuff you are going to put aboard for the three month cruise. Longer waterline tends to average out waves more, and the Venezia has 41 ft LWL compared to 35 ft for Mahe. As Chotu said, when you think about fun all sailors are thinking about the long beam reaches in smooth seas, when in reality 95% + of the time you are in a harbor living aboard and swimming off the back. Most boat time is not moving, so think of that.

Name SA Disp (lbs) Disp/LWL S/D Bruce Kelsall
Foutaine Pajot*Mahe 36 700 11,023 115 22.69 1.19 0.75
Foutaine Pajot* Venezia 42 970 13,600 88 27.34 1.31 0.86

Lots of good comparison data on performance statistics here:
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mahe-36
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/venezia-42

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Eric Jan

So it could almost be that the Mahe's moderness might feel just as big as a Venezia.

Yes I also believe that the Mahe is more than big enough inside, and an attractive layout. I wonder more about the difference in handling the seas when sailing and at anchorage. Also the Mahe has a double door to the cockpit which might help air circulation in the tropics.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Sailed both of these and your assessment is about right. The Maha is more "modern" and more fun to sail. The Venezia is a less "modern" and heavier boat that is less fun to sail.

Both are nice boats just different.

In light winds do you think the Mahe would be faster?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Nor

In light winds do you think the Mahe would be faster?

Probably - as the man from Carlsberg would say.


Venezia specs are based on a boat with canvas bimini and many had hard biminis fitted that increases the weight considerably whereas the Mahe was designed with a hard top so factory weights will be more accurate 9if factory weights can ever be accurate that is).

[Nor]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

Based on just the numbers of sail area and displacement, the Venezia should be a more powerful boat. Venezia has considerably more sail area for an additional ton of displacement. Of course, these are factory numbers, not actually loaded real-world sailing numbers. The smaller boat will be more affected by the extra ton of real-world stuff you are going to put aboard for the three month cruise. Longer waterline tends to average out waves more, and the Venezia has 41 ft LWL compared to 35 ft for Mahe. As Chotu said, when you think about fun all sailors are thinking about the long beam reaches in smooth seas, when in reality 95% + of the time you are in a harbor living aboard and swimming off the back. Most boat time is not moving, so think of that.

Name SA Disp (lbs) Disp/LWL S/D Bruce Kelsall
Foutaine Pajot*Mahe 36 700 11,023 115 22.69 1.19 0.75
Foutaine Pajot* Venezia 42 970 13,600 88 27.34 1.31 0.86

Lots of good comparison data on performance statistics here:
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mahe-36
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/venezia-42

Thanks, are those sailboatdata numbers the correct ones? I've seen the weight for Venezia different places ranging from 6700kg to 10000kg.. Does the data refer to empty water and diesel tanks? Engine installed?

Why do people say that the Venezia is an older heavier design, when newer boats seems to be much heavier? Belize 43 18,960 lb / 8,600 kg, Lagoon 400 22,531 lb / 10,220 kg, lagoon 39 25,732 lb / 11,672 kg etc..?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Nor

Thanks, are those sailboatdata numbers the correct ones? I've seen the weight for Venezia different places ranging from 6700kg to 10000kg.. Does the data refer to empty water and diesel tanks? Engine installed?



Why do people say that the Venezia is an older heavier design, when newer boats seems to be much heavier? Belize 43 18,960 lb / 8,600 kg, Lagoon 400 22,531 lb / 10,220 kg, lagoon 39 25,732 lb / 11,672 kg etc..?

Multihull dynamics puts the Venezia at about double the weight, and their performance indicators show the Mahe as being faster under sail.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Nor

Thanks, are those sailboatdata numbers the correct ones? I've seen the weight for Venezia different places ranging from 6700kg to 10000kg.. Does the data refer to empty water and diesel tanks? Engine installed?

Why do people say that the Venezia is an older heavier design, when newer boats seems to be much heavier? Belize 43 18,960 lb / 8,600 kg, Lagoon 400 22,531 lb / 10,220 kg, lagoon 39 25,732 lb / 11,672 kg etc..?

As materials tech moved forward boats got lighter, the Mahe and Belize were built during this phase and are both "relatively" light. IMO the Belize is about the best compromise between cost and performance that FP produced. The later boats get progressively heavier as they competed with other manufacturers for ever more "home" comforts to satisfy the demands of the charter market which is where the money is.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

As materials tech moved forward boats got lighter, the Mahe and Belize were built during this phase and are both "relatively" light. IMO the Belize is about the best compromise between cost and performance that FP produced. The later boats get progressively heavier as they competed with other manufacturers for ever more "home" comforts to satisfy the demands of the charter market which is where the money is.

Thanks, from sailboatdata the Belize is 8,600 kg while Venezia is 6,169 kg. That's just why I'm confused. But maybe the numbers are wrong.

[cuffy]

We have lived aboard a Mahe for the last 6 years sailing around the Med.
For a couple onboard, with occasional summer visitors, there is sufficient room for us.

We have worked a bit on sailing performance for the Med with a bigger square top main, code 0 and a big assymetric so we can make good speeds down to about 6-7 knots of wind. A 20 mile beat in the Aegean against a 25 knt wind was OK, a bit of slamming on bridge deck but no hobby horsing.

The water tanks are quite large for the boat, 530 litres, so can slow you down. We fitted a water maker which helps a lot.


Ian