40ft Cat-Comparisons

[cat-keys]

My wife and I are currently in the market for a used 40ft catamaran, preferable an owners version since it will be used for just the two of us with occasional guests. We have been sailing for many years and power boating before that. We have chartered 46 Prout, 44 Lagoon, 38 Sunsail, 35 Gemini and several monohulls before that.

I also consider myself handy enough, having owned, maintained and repaired the 42ft 30+ year old Detroit diesel powered sport fish we had some years ago. So cosmetic and even basic mechanical and fiberglass/hull work is not a worry for me.

For this reason, we are open to taking on a used ex charter boat eventhough the forum is full of doomsday scenarios.

We are considering 2 models at this point, a 8-12 year old privilege 395 and a 5 to 7 year old lagoon 400, both owners versions.

we will be sailing her in south florida, keys and throughout the Bahamas. the boat must be sturdy enough to cross the gulf stream (I have done that in 12+ft seas and its no fun, but it can happen and you have to be prepared for the unplanned) and roomy enough to live on comfortably for 3-4 weeks.

would love to get some opinions on these two boats compared to each other as far as build quality and sailing capabilities...how stable are they, bridge deck slapping on the nascele berth in the P395, expected and known problems these particular models have, etc.

I have been reading comments on cruisers multihull forum for years and find them very useful in many subjects, so I am looking forward to the community's response on this.

[smjack1]

Sorry not much help for your query, but am in a similar situation and will be very interested in the responses from the learned forum members.

My wife and I are planning on retiring, selling up land assets, the living aboard for a couple of years until we, or I, become too rickety. If all goes to plan, early retirement will be in 4.25 years with fairly detailed spreadsheets suggesting we have Aus$550k for a second hand Lagoon or equivalent Fountaine Pajot and an annual budget of $125k

Current trolling suggests a Lagoon 40 would be well suited for a plan of 4 - 5 years of live aboard and cruising South Eat Asia (from Cairns then on to Indonesia, Thailand, and a couple of years in the Philippines).

Best of wishes for your plans.

[Southern Star]

First of all, welcome to the forum cat-keys! Either boat should do very well for your purposes as the gulfstream crossing from south Florida, so long as you choose a decent weather window, won't be much of a challenge for boats that are quite capable of significant offshore passages.

I haven't been on a Privilege 395, although I have been on a Privilege 37 and as I recall, the former is an extended version of the latter with more space aft for a generator, a galley up rather than down and a slight increase in sail area to make up for the increased weight. They 395 is, I believe, a very rare animal compared to the 37.

The Privileges are well-built and have a better quality interior finish than the Lagoon (watch out, however, for damage from leaking fixed portlights that are curved and difficult to replace). Yes, the forward berths would likely be uncomfortable underway - but this is true of forward berths on most cats in this size range. Access to the diesels is under the aft berths with a forward-facing door for checking fluid levels, etc. Less convenient in harbour, but safer if maintenance is required underway.

The Privilege is relatively heavy and won't be fast, but they are certainly capable of not only survivng the gulf stream off Florida, but a circumnavigation.

The Lagoon 40 is a more recent design and, while not a lightweight, will prove to be faster than the Privilege 395 while having more interior volume. The interior is a more angular, faux wood Ikea-style finish which some love. It is certainly practical except for the increased risk of injury due to some relatively sharp edges. Diesel access is from the aft deck - an advantage for you, I suspect, as you will not be doing any long offshore passages requiring maintenence in bad conditions while underway.

Brad

[cat-keys]

Hello Brad

Thanks for your reply. Seems like you have a good understanding of these two models. What about longevity and depreciation that can be expected? I believe the privilege may be a bit better in quality but the boat would be a few years older than a lagoon. We would like to keep her for at least 5 years and although we will likely start in the Bahamas, we would like to take the "thorny path" down to BVI and beyond some time as well. Which one would you trust mover for medium range?

[Southern Star]

Cat-keys, I would trust either boat for the passages you are considering. In terms of resale, I suspect that you would be better off with the Lagoon as:

1. It is a very popular boat and model as opposed to that model of Privilege in particular.
2. It is more modern in design/appearance.
3. It has more interior/cockpit space.

Is there any reason you are, at this point, limiting yourself to these two boats? Iask because there are numerous other boats that would suit your purposes in the same price range. FP's (although watch for osmotic blistering), Leopards (slightly better build quality, although often a little less bridgdeck clearance), Manta (excellent build quality, good resale and although less spacious than the former boats and with limited bridgdeck clearance, they have a better-protected cockpit, are easier to sail short-handed due to a self-tacking camber spar jib and largely make up for te bridgedeck clearance with a very well designed tunnel under the bridgdeck).

Brad

[cat-keys]

Thanks Brad

Appreciate your comments and we are open to other boats. I suppose the concern we have is that most lagoon and leopards as well as lipari in this size range are ex charter and have had hard use.

So the question becomes a build quality issue for us. I know the issue with the FP osmosis so what I have been seeing on the forum is that lagoons are toyotas and FP are Kia's

With that analogy what is a leopard and what is a privilege.

Also we chartered a sunsail 385 in st Lucia and sailed her to Martinique we felt she was sturdy and we hit some rough squall lines with 35knot winds no problems. Just don't care for the look of the boat for some reason it looks like charter built. I quess that would make it a checker cab.

The new 40 leopard is beutiful but we don't have $450k and don't want to wait for 4 years

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

In terms of resale, I suspect that you would be better off with the Lagoon as:

1. It is a very popular boat and model as opposed to that model of Privilege in particular.
2. It is more modern in design/appearance.
3. It has more interior/cockpit space.

I would tend to disagree on this. The Lagoon 400 is much better than the Privilege on the aspects listed, and of course you will get much more money for it when you sell. But you also pay more when you buy.

Resale value is always in relation to your intial purchase price.


Deprecation on the Privilege should be lower, because the boat is already older. I have seen the Privilege 37 (the older sister of the 395) for 120k euro. The Lagoon 400 costs roughly twice as much.

Living on a nice and shiny L400 will be more expensive. Nothing is free

[lindabarzini]

What is the decision that differentiates Lagoon 39,400, 410, or 42. I know the 42 TPI's are from around 1992 and the least expensive. Then I have seen the 410 S2's for less than $200k also.

[Factor]

The 42's (meaning the TPI 42s) are quite a different boat to the 39 400 and 410. They would be the smaller volume of all of the boats despite being the longest and they, ipso facto, sail the best.

[cat-keys]

Thanks for all the replies. One factor limiting us is the marina. Our slip only can fit a maximum of 39ft really and about 26ft wide. It's really hard to find marina space for catamarans at a reasonable price in Miami and not have to worry about bridge clearance going under the Julia Tuttle at 56ft

So this keeps us with the leopard 38 the FP lipari the lagoon 39 and 400 and the privilege 395 pretty much

Also our budget is limited to $250k max but would prefer a bit lower to do some upgrades

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by cat-keys

Thanks for all the replies. One factor limiting us is the marina. Our slip only can fit a maximum of 39ft really and about 26ft wide. It's really hard to find marina space for catamarans at a reasonable price in Miami and not have to worry about bridge clearance going under the Julia Tuttle at 56ft

So this keeps us with the leopard 38 the FP lipari the lagoon 39 and 400 and the privilege 395 pretty much

Also our budget is limited to $250k max but would prefer a bit lower to do some upgrades

You may have to re-check some of the specifications of your short list; the Lagoon 400 has an air draft of 21.4 metres, which translates to over 70 feet. It's not going to fit under that bridge!