42' Vs 44' Vs 46' Cats for Ocean Crossing

[SailingSisu]

We went through the same thought process and we documented our findings under Sailing Sisu.

That said, we have sailed 39 and 46ft. The 46ft handled the waves much easier. It surfed the trade wind waves much longer than the 39 and therefore reduced the time for the crossing a lot. Off course, naturally the 46 had a bigger sail plan and could handle higher winds easier with its broad beam. The space difference inside is just HUGE.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Steve_C

I would be very interested in your impressions of the 450S. I would have thought the boom height would not be an issue since its the "S" model.
One thing I do NOT like about the 450S is the Helm Seat. Its very upright and close and since its built in it would be a major issue to do anything about it. At least on the 380 and 400 it would be very simple to upgrade to a much better aftermarket seat.

I have been conflicted for a long while about the benefits of the 450S vs the 400 and the 380. I love the thought of all the extra storage and room but I also can REALLY appreciate keeping everything smaller and more manageable. Its not very often that I can find true unbiased direct comparisons.

I am especially interested in hearing more about the noise issue. I have noticed when chartering a 450F that they can be noisy below when underway.

I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Thanks!

The boom height for me was an issue.. at the mast one has to mount 3 steps and hang onto a stay while fumbling one handed with the sail.. at the other end the boom has to be dropped to work efficiently while the whipping boom tries to break your bones or knock you overboard..
Still cannot understand why they fit a swivel block on the sail end of the main uphaul.. all it achives is a twist in the lines which has the annoying habit of jamming up when you want to drop the main necessitating clambering up the mast to untwist it.. usually it instantly retwists as you clamber back down.
Have in the past superglued the swivel (with owners consent) to stop this happening.. works a treat.
The seat was comfortable enough for me.. a roomy bench seat big enough for two a sufficient space to walk easily between seat and helm to go down to the cockpit or out to the side deck.
Regarding the noise factor.. for me the wider the beam the greater the loads on the structure.. on this boat there was terrible creaking stbd fore of the salon where I would imagine the main beam support/structure is and the aft port corner where I imagine the main aft beam runs behind the galley made a horrible grinding noise.. beam sea hull slams were similar.
Going into 20-30kts I found 65 to 70degrees with 2-3 metre seas double reefed main single fore to be the most comfortable and least punishing for the boat.. still managed 8-10 knots but hardly any slamming bar the odd of angle lump.
What I could not believe however were the reefing recommendations posted by the helm.. bar sailing in near flat seas with the wind off the land.. in the ocean with the seas those wind speeds produce I can only describe it as a 'How to break your boat so we can sell you another' guide.. Insane.!!!
Meant to take a picture of it but forgot.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by UFO

For arguments sake, lets just stick to the length issue rather than different build/manufacturer issues and lets keep the sailing grounds out of the high latitudes.......



Is there a (huge) difference between the above lengths for Safety, Comfort and Stability for Ocean crossing in cats?

If yr question is specifically for Ocean , I have gone twice; once with Orana 44 once with Nautitech 46. No major differences. But I've sailed various cats from 36 ft to 64 ft, everything else equal, there is a huge difference between the below 40 and above 40 ft cats, in terms of speed and comfort. After 47-48 ft, it's another class..

Cheers

Yeloya

[Steve_C]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The boom height for me was an issue.. at the mast one has to mount 3 steps and hang onto a stay while fumbling one handed with the sail.. at the other end the boom has to be dropped to work efficiently while the whipping boom tries to break your bones or knock you overboard..
Still cannot understand why they fit a swivel block on the sail end of the main uphaul.. all it achives is a twist in the lines which has the annoying habit of jamming up when you want to drop the main necessitating clambering up the mast to untwist it.. usually it instantly retwists as you clamber back down.
Have in the past superglued the swivel (with owners consent) to stop this happening.. works a treat.
The seat was comfortable enough for me.. a roomy bench seat big enough for two a sufficient space to walk easily between seat and helm to go down to the cockpit or out to the side deck.
Regarding the noise factor.. for me the wider the beam the greater the loads on the structure.. on this boat there was terrible creaking stbd fore of the salon where I would imagine the main beam support/structure is and the aft port corner where I imagine the main aft beam runs behind the galley made a horrible grinding noise.. beam sea hull slams were similar.
Going into 20-30kts I found 65 to 70degrees with 2-3 metre seas double reefed main single fore to be the most comfortable and least punishing for the boat.. still managed 8-10 knots but hardly any slamming bar the odd of angle lump.
What I could not believe however were the reefing recommendations posted by the helm.. bar sailing in near flat seas with the wind off the land.. in the ocean with the seas those wind speeds produce I can only describe it as a 'How to break your boat so we can sell you another' guide.. Insane.!!!
Meant to take a picture of it but forgot.

Thanks Boatman!

I am 6'5" and that's why the helm seat felt small to me, and also why the boom height feels slightly less "high".

It's disconcerting to hear about the creaking and grinding. That's certainly one of my pet peeves. I would be forced to find the source and do something.

Again, Thanks for the feedback,

[boatman61]

No worries.. I am 6ft 2... maybe I need to grow a bit.. any drawing boards around.. I'll skip the quartering.. kinda defeats the purpose..

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The boom height for me was an issue.. at the mast one has to mount 3 steps and hang onto a stay while fumbling one handed with the sail.. at the other end the boom has to be dropped to work efficiently while the whipping boom tries to break your bones or knock you overboard..

Still cannot understand why they fit a swivel block on the sail end of the main uphaul.. all it achives is a twist in the lines which has the annoying habit of jamming up when you want to drop the main necessitating clambering up the mast to untwist it.. usually it instantly retwists as you clamber back down.

Have in the past superglued the swivel (with owners consent) to stop this happening.. works a treat.

The seat was comfortable enough for me.. a roomy bench seat big enough for two a sufficient space to walk easily between seat and helm to go down to the cockpit or out to the side deck.

Regarding the noise factor.. for me the wider the beam the greater the loads on the structure.. on this boat there was terrible creaking stbd fore of the salon where I would imagine the main beam support/structure is and the aft port corner where I imagine the main aft beam runs behind the galley made a horrible grinding noise.. beam sea hull slams were similar.

Going into 20-30kts I found 65 to 70degrees with 2-3 metre seas double reefed main single fore to be the most comfortable and least punishing for the boat.. still managed 8-10 knots but hardly any slamming bar the odd of angle lump.

What I could not believe however were the reefing recommendations posted by the helm.. bar sailing in near flat seas with the wind off the land.. in the ocean with the seas those wind speeds produce I can only describe it as a 'How to break your boat so we can sell you another' guide.. Insane.!!!

Meant to take a picture of it but forgot.

Just regarding the reefing guide, not sure if you were being sarcastic with the ‘how to break your boat’ comment. Reefing guides are produced to help owners to keep loads within the designed limits and are limits, not targets. On our boat, unless we’re playing around and willing to push the limits, we usually reef one or two steps ahead of the guide for comfort and a higher stability reserve. Fortunately as a performance-oriented cruiser our boat doesn’t need a lot of sail area to keep moving well.

Boom height is an issue for access to the sail and should be a consideration for any offshore oriented purchase - you definitely don’t want to have to be climbing the mast to reach the sail for basic manoeuvres. Flybridges and high-mounted sedan seats, especially if they have biminis, are particular contributors to high booms. Though certainly the guy from Catamaran Impi shows that a flybridge can be A-OK for offshore.

For height, you just have to try out all the boats you’re interested in to make sure you are comfortable in all the spaces - for example a particular height in the salon doesn’t necessarily mean the steps down to the hulls have enough clearance.

Agree with locking the swivel - no point in a 2:1 mainsail hoist. We have a swivel in our 2:1 gennaker halyard but that one doesn’t seem to ever cause trouble.