65 lb. anchor on a Lagoon 400?

[Beach View]

First, I'm sorry if this question has been answered before, but does anyone know if the stock anchor windless on a 2013 Lagoon 400 can handle a 65 lb anchor? I'm considering replacing my OEM (I think ~35 lb.) plow anchor with a 65 lb. Mantus. I bought the Mantus for a storm anchor, but the Mantus website specifies a 65' anchor for cruising. If the windless can handle it I guess the next question is "will it fit"....Thanks, Bill

[Helia 44]

Hello, you poor Bugger, after a 125 views no one is helping ..... Heh he, lone Ranger here... I used to have a Marine Engineering Business outfitting Cruising boats about 30 years ago.. If you look up he Anchor Windlass on Google it will tell you the pound pull. Anything like a 1000 lb pull is a breeze with all chain and the Mantus... OK?

Now the important stuff, to make it fit: If your Lagoon is like the normal French way of doing things, the hole in the hull face of the bridge deck has a stainless anchor rack and roller there..

Look, I went through the dilemma in some length, with my Helia 44. I use the existing 45 lb plow for a backup storm hook, on the original 30 M of chain and added 90 M more and I switched to a Rocna 33 kg, something around 73? lb, anyway the Manson was in the running too... I actually liked the Manson but I chose the Rocna only because of this: I was thinking that if I ever got it stuck in rock, too deep to snorkel, if I could see it I could run a grappling hook over the 1" hoop on the Rocna and pull it that way...

Anyway: In answer to your question, I think the Manson was a good choice in that size, and you are probably only handicapped by the height of the shank in the aperture of the anchor roller opening like I was on my Helia 44. Think of this: You drop the position of the roller, straight down, not following the hull, down, to make more room for the taller shank OK? I had to get cobalt drills, a few sizes, starting small about 2mm, then 6mm then 10mm something like that.. And I had to use a lube spray to cool the bit and clean as a drilling oil, but I drilled in a new roller shaft hole set to LOWER the roller part... You probably only need to go down about 50mm, but measure..

Then I put on a square polish stainless flat plate, about 1.5mm, rounded corners, about 250mm square, sika-flexed on the hull below the anchor roller down about 200mm? below it from memory, to catch the point if it went long... Turns out it does not, but it looks good anyway.

Hope I have been a help.. IMO you are on the right track, and this is only a few hour job from layout to clean up and it will give you a lot of satisfaction and good sleep...heh he...

Kind regards, Helia 44 "Avalon"

[Multihull]

Originally Posted by Helia 44

Hello, you poor Bugger, after a 125 views no one is helping ..... Heh he, lone Ranger here... I used to have a Marine Engineering Business outfitting Cruising boats about 30 years ago.. If you look up he Anchor Windlass on Google it will tell you the pound pull. Anything like a 1000 lb pull is a breeze with all chain and the Mantus... OK?

Now the important stuff, to make it fit: If your Lagoon is like the normal French way of doing things, the hole in the hull face of the bridge deck has a stainless anchor rack and roller there..

Look, I went through the dilemma in some length, with my Helia 44. I use the existing 45 lb plow for a backup storm hook, on the original 30 M of chain and added 90 M more and I switched to a Rocna 33 kg, something around 73? lb, anyway the Manson was in the running too... I actually liked the Manson but I chose the Rocna only because of this: I was thinking that if I ever got it stuck in rock, too deep to snorkel, if I could see it I could run a grappling hook over the 1" hoop on the Rocna and pull it that way...

Anyway: In answer to your question, I think the Manson was a good choice in that size, and you are probably only handicapped by the height of the shank in the aperture of the anchor roller opening like I was on my Helia 44. Think of this: You drop the position of the roller, straight down, not following the hull, down, to make more room for the taller shank OK? I had to get cobalt drills, a few sizes, starting small about 2mm, then 6mm then 10mm something like that.. And I had to use a lube spray to cool the bit and clean as a drilling oil, but I drilled in a new roller shaft hole set to LOWER the roller part... You probably only need to go down about 50mm, but measure..

Then I put on a square polish stainless flat plate, about 1.5mm, rounded corners, about 250mm square, sika-flexed on the hull below the anchor roller down about 200mm? below it from memory, to catch the point if it went long... Turns out it does not, but it looks good anyway.

Hope I have been a help.. IMO you are on the right track, and this is only a few hour job from layout to clean up and it will give you a lot of satisfaction and good sleep...heh he...

Kind regards, Helia 44 "Avalon"

Impressive reply. Any pictures ?

[downunder]

Last year I chartered a L 400 for a week in the Whitsundays.

I always motor foward when picking up the anchor to take strain off the winch but still managed to trip out the winch on one occasion. I think it was a Quick.

I noted the vessel guide provided prominatly stressed the position of the breaker to reset the winch. Quess its a common issue with charter crews.

Said to me the winch supplied is a bit on the light side for my liking.

Perhaps some of the L400 owners might drop in give you the benifit of their experience in real cruising situations.

Recon your choice of anchor and size is appropriate for the vessel.

cheers

[Wanderlust]

I wouldn't worry about the additional weight because it only adds a small percentage load to the whole system. Think of the weight of chain if you anchor in deep water.

I have a 1200W motor and it effortlessly pulls my 30kg anchor with normal anchoring depth of chain. As noted by Downunder, it is good practice to motor forwards while retrieving but I still find the hardest work for the windlass is just before the anchor pulls out of the mud/sand.

I think the 65lb/30kg anchor is a good size for a 40' cat. Just make sure it fits and won't get tangled or jammed on things.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Multihull

Impressive reply. Any pictures ?

Helia 44 wrote:
"Now the important stuff, to make it fit: If your Lagoon is like the normal French way of doing things, the hole in the hull face of the bridge deck has a stainless anchor rack and roller there.."

Unfortunately, the wrong picture!

The Lagoon 400 has the anchor fairlead on the forebeam and the chain runs through a channel on the UPPER side of walkway over the trampoline. So none of this palaver about anchor chain, bridles etc going under the tramp and sitting in a hole in the front of the bridge deck. "Normal French!" Good one!

As the anchor stock comes over the fairlead roller and the anchor rests on that roller, it is possible to use a fairly large anchor on a L400. It doesn't have to fit in a hole in the bridge deck. The only "catch point" is the prodder stays that run from the inside of each hull to the prodder tip, if the boat is fitted with a prodder for a genaker. That said, I've not ever seen a Mantus in real life, but a few L400s carry Rocnas in 25 and 33Kg sizes. These seem similiar designs to me. They all seem good cruising picks for this boat.

The Quick 1000 windlass should handle the retrieve if you do the usual things to make life easier for it when weighing anchor. Anchor weight is just one of the variables that contribute to load on a windlass, as previous posts detail. I've never tripped the circuit in dozens of retrieves.

[Wanderlust]

Originally Posted by tuskie

The only "catch point" is the prodder stays that run from the inside of each hull to the prodder tip, if the boat is fitted with a prodder for a genaker.

Agree.

My series 1 L410 pulled the anchor to the bridgedeck as standard, and I modified mine to pull it on top of the forebeam. I have to pause when the anchor stock reaches the forebeam and wait for it to stop swinging before pulling it over the top. Due to the anchor size, I still manage to get it caught occasionally and need to go forward and give it a hard boot to free it. Hence my comment before about making sure it won't snag on something.

[Beach View]

Thanks everyone on CF. I'm pretty sure the windless will handle the extra ~35 lbs., considering how much chain is out in deep water (as Wanderlust mentioned). I guess I'll simply try it out. If the windless can handle the weight but it won't fit over the bow roller I'll modify or replace the roller. Also it seems like the retrieval sticking point is right when the tip of the shank touches the roller and the winch has to pull it "over the hump" and onto the deck (ok, walkway). If this is the case I can man handle the anchor on board and secure it before snugging up the chain with the windless. Finally, I do have the gennaker pole and stays, so that will be a consideration....I'll let you know how it turns out, but it'll be a couple of months, I'm away from my boat...Bill

[meirriba]

Standard L400 Windlass: Quick 'Antares' 1,000W
I have used it to raise 50Kg anchor on a specific occasion and the breaker was not tripped.

[Beach View]

Thanks Mark--I just looked up the specs for the windless. Using 12V it has a working load of 120 kg, so that should be enough to pull up the anchor (~30 kg) and a pretty good amount of chain, especially when the chain and anchor are displacing water (e.g. effectively a little "lighter" than their dry wight). Bill

[roetter]

Absolutely, you need a bigger anchor.

I just upgraded on a L450 from an 85 lbs Rocna to a 125 lbs Mantus. No problem for the windlass. It was recommended with a 50lbs Delta.

Before pulling up the anchor I lock the wheel and only use the throttles for control. My wife is at the bow and points with her stretched out arm in the direction of the anchor and the downward angle of her arm indicates how close the anchor is. Using idle throttle, unless it is blowing hard, I manouver the bow towards the anchor while picking up the slack in the chain. Once the anchor is right under the bow I break it out just with the boat, not the windlass. Once it is free my wife indicates with a thumbs-up that I can pull the anchor in.

One problem that may occur with a larger anchor, is that it hits the cross beam while coming up. The large anchors have longer shanks, and the rotation from vertical to horizontal starts later with the top of the shank hitting the cross beam already. Heard of a boat at the service center that needed a new bross beam. I install a wedge shaped piece of Delrin (Nylon block) at the underside of the cross beam to guide the shank anft towards the windlass. I may also drop the bottom roller a little lower to help with an earlier rotation.

I just use 30m of chain against chafe on the bottom. I just switched from 3-strand to 8-plait. What a difference. On the 3-strand I had redone the anchor to chain splice 3 times in order to achieve a better fit through the windlass. However, only one out of ten times it would go through. Usually my wife had to open the locker and pull on the 3-strand while I operated the windlass very carefully.

With the 8-plait is has gone through the gypsy every time like a charm. Also, you would be able to easily fit 3-times the length of line in the locker. It coils so much neater than the 3-strand.

[Beach View]

I'm away from my boat right now, so I can't test my 65 lb. Mantus on the stock L400 roller, but has anyone tried this?

Mantus Anchors | Mantus Anchor Mate

If the new shank is too large for the stock L400 roller, has anyone tried retrofitting a roller from a L450 onto a smaller Lagoon?

Any other suggestions for a larger roller?

Thanks, Bill

[roetter]

Originally Posted by Beach View

...

If the new shank is too large for the stock L400 roller, has anyone tried retrofitting a roller from a L450 onto a smaller Lagoon?

Any other suggestions for a larger roller?

I checked on my 450 and there is a little space left at the the bottom of the 'U'-shaped support for the roller. I can move my roller down probably 50mm.





A constand problem we are having is that the bridle or shackle get jammed into the scissor-like gap between the aluminum tray and the longitudinal beam at the top. I have been sitting there pounding with a large hammer to get the bridle free again. I am planning to place vertical deflector plates either side. I will probably start experimenting with a piece of plywood screwed to the sides.

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by roetter

Absolutely, you need a bigger anchor.

I just upgraded on a L450 from an 85 lbs Rocna to a 125 lbs Mantus.

Wow. Absolutely? Are you serious? 125 lb Mantus? Is this because you're not using a chain rode?

To Mr. Beach View - I didn't see where you specified whether you're using chain or line for rode. In my view, this makes a difference on the size of the anchor you need. Frankly, I disagree you need any more than about 25kgs on a 400. Perhaps the Mantus advice has way too much margin in it. Recommend you compare to the sizing recommendations of their competitors. As a data point my primary is a 30kg Bruce and my secondary is a 55lb Delta with a 10mm chain rode. My cruising weight is about 24,000 lbs. And I don't have any occasions when I thought that wasn't enough.

2 Hulls Dave

[jaybird1111]

Bill
that's a massive anchor, and I'm with 2Hulls. you won't need that, esp with chain. I've found the Manson Supreme to be a very good anchor. Held us (along with some other stuff, we spidered) in our hole for SANDY 50kt and by itself in Little Sabine in a sudden squall about 60kt whipped us round but didn't budge the hook

They suggest 45lb for your boat size, if you just want to go up one size go to 60

Jay