Affordable liveaboard catamaran for a family of 5?

[One]

Basically we are absolutely free where we register the catamaran. We will also completely deregister in our home country, because of compulsory schooling and switch to homeschooling.

You're probably right that not all panels and insulation have to contain asbestos. So as I said, everyone has to decide for themselves.

I am sure that we will find the right catamaran sooner or later. As already said dream boats would be Sowgoose or PDQ 36, or something similar newer.

Hold you up to date.

Many greetings,
Alex

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by One

Requirements to the cat:
- Year of build from 2005 onwards,
- Min. three cabins,
- Not chartered before,
- No production cat like Lagoon, Fountaine Pajot, Leopard, Nautitech, etc.

The best options I found so far:
1) Prout Snowgoose Elite 37, would be perfect (problem: Only build till 2001)
2) Gemini 105MC (too much problems with quality / don't like the Legacy)
3) Privilege 37 (I think only build until 2003)
4) Chris White Atlantik 42, perfect but only cheap if older and very rare
5) Broadblue 385 (nothing on the market, not easy to find / 38 is no option)
6) PDQ 36 (too old)

The listed Prout, Gemini, Privilege, Broadblue and PDQ are production cats just like the ones you excluded.

You excluded all big manufacturers, which means you excluded maybe 90% of all cats that were built since 2005.

If you don't broaden your search criteria or increase your budget you may very well spend the next decade searching for a unicorn that fits your criteria.

[qwerme]

Originally Posted by One

2) Gemini 105MC (too much problems with quality / don't like the Legacy)

I have a Gemini and a family of 5... honestly, it's too small and I wish I had an extra cabin right now.

Originally Posted by One

6) PDQ 36 (too old)

I've been on a PDQ 36, It felt cramped compared to my Gemini somehow. But, it does have 4 cabins and it is a solid, well built boat. I would seriously consider it if I were you.

[TOM-ROLPH]

Like many of the people here I've owned numerous boats since the 1980s. Now have had asbestos in them and I'm alive to tell the tale.
A 2005 boat is a modern boat and will be expensive
If you like the Prout that much go for it.

More of a problem, unless you are an EU resident will be legally sailing in the Med for 3 years.
90 days in a rolling180 day period is the shengen visa restrictions

Turkey, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro Tunisia and Morocco will help but it has to be well planned.

If you're going to Turkey you now need grey water holding tanks as well as black, something to consider when you buy.

Greece has got very hot on transit logs and insurance. Italy is still pretty relaxed.

Good luck

[smj]

Originally Posted by qwerme

I have a Gemini and a family of 5... honestly, it's too small and I wish I had an extra cabin right now.







I've been on a PDQ 36, It felt cramped compared to my Gemini somehow. But, it does have 4 cabins and it is a solid, well built boat. I would seriously consider it if I were you.

The PDQ 36 is a very well built boat and in my opinion one of the most comfortable for its size. It comes with 2 queen sized bunks in the bridgedeck and an optional single in the stern of one hull. The other hull has the head in the stern. I found the PDQ 36 to feel much larger than our older Gemini 3200, but maybe not so the 105?

[ljones]

Victory 35. Great build quality and layout. Very seaworthy. Had a 1994 Victory for 20 years. No problems of any kind when we sold her in 2019.

[One]

Yes, we are from Europe.

Thanks for the hint with the gray water tank for turkey.

The Victory 35 looks good, thanks.

I am convinced that we will find something suitable and yes PDQ were also production catamarans but not built and developed exclusively for charter!

Luckily I can do a lot myself on the boat.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Consider a 3 or 4 cabin monohull.

When are you planning on sailing the Med?

Between searching for your unicorn, or upgrading an existing boat, your chances of family sailing this season in the med is as far a reach as getting your boat with your specifications.

Honestly, I think there are too many people overwhelmed by less than honest portrayals, of how affordable sailing is these days. The sailing might be cheap, but the out-rig is an expensive exercise.

And shoestring budgets in an exotic market, are not companions.

You repeatedly states that you are convinced you will find your boat; but is the repertoire to convince readers, or yourself? All the responders are hinting on the difficulties you are facing and nudging you in other directions, but to no avail.

Might serve a goal to save for a bigger budget, or mind the sincere thoughts expressed by everyone above.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

Consider a 3 or 4 cabin monohull.

When are you planning on sailing the Med?

Between searching for your unicorn, or upgrading an existing boat, your chances of family sailing this season in the med is as far a reach as getting your boat with your specifications.

Honestly, I think there are too many people overwhelmed by less than honest portrayals, of how affordable sailing is these days. The sailing might be cheap, but the out-rig is an expensive exercise.

And shoestring budgets in an exotic market, are not companions.

You repeatedly states that you are convinced you will find your boat; but is the repertoire to convince readers, or yourself? All the responders are hinting on the difficulties you are facing and nudging you in other directions, but to no avail.

Might serve a goal to save for a bigger budget, or mind the sincere thoughts expressed by everyone above.

Somone had to say it

[sv Stella Maris]

We were 8 aboard a 3 cabin 45’ cat…no sweat.

Sailing is as affordable as you want it to be. Many know you can get a boat for free if your are in the right place and willing to do the work on it; not a turn-key $150kUSD boat, but it is to prove my point.

Our budget is thousands per month for our family of (now) 9 aboard a 60’ cat full time in the Caribbean.. Our friends have a 45’ mono with 5 aboard and live on $500usd budget per month in the same anchorage…people make it work.

PM me for recommendations or model opinions.

If your timeline is actually limited to 2-3 years, you must either get a (relatively) cheap (any) boat that you can sell even cheaper to get out from under it; OR stick with the popular production models that sell themselves…even if it’s in worse shape. Lots of newbies think they can ‘beat the system’ and diy-refit a popular boat for profit. Let them dream. Have an exit strategy…

[One]

Sorry, I'm not a "newbie", my family and I have already completely built a Cat and restored two boats (my father, my mother, my two brothers and I). I myself sailed with my parents and brothers in the Mediterranean for four years and as a helping hand I crossed the Atlantic twice. I have owned three boats in the last 20 years.

Now I'm traveling with my wife and my three girls.

If I find a boat, my two brothers and my father help out 24x7 for six weeks to fix whatever needs to be done.

Now our budget for the upkeep of the boat and living expenses is plentiful.

Well, I've already found two catamarans that could be considered, but I wanted to ask around in the forum for alternatives.

About the space: We have been traveling in a van with only a bunk bed without a bathroom for two years now and for the last 12 months on a Hallberg Rassy 37 in the Caribbean. As I already wrote, we live simply with good things and have a lavish budget for having fun in life. We have optimized everything so that everyone only has a backpack of personal belongings for very high-quality things, simplify and have fun without a lot of ballast in life.

[sv Stella Maris]

Aha, if the comment following mine was directed at my use of “newbie” term; I messed up my delivery intent; and you maybe took it defensively, so sorry.

Obviously people who have built boats are not newbies; they are boat builders of varying degree.

The newbie comment was directed at the thousands of couch cruisers that frequent this forum thinking they can buy a hurricane damaged boat and diy-refit it for a profit, on the cheap. Many can diy-refit well, but it will never be cheap: either cash equity or sweat equity will be significant. I myself make 90% of my repairs and hold diy in the highest regard, it’s 0800 here, I already had my coffee completed a dual-layer dinghy repair ;-)

My comment was spirited to have an exit strategy, and sticking with popular models is the best way to ensure that. Someone that’s new to a vessel category/type should be weary to deviate from the norm if they have a punctuated timeline; custom boat, custom problem scenario.

As I said before, feel free to PM me and get personalized correspondence, that is the best approach to many of these topics on this great forum.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by One

Maximum Budget: 150.000,-€ for the cat and 50.000,-€ for a refit and upgrades (LiFePO4, solar, watermaker, AIS, Epirb, etc.). A cheaper boat would be more relaxed.

Requirements to the cat:
- Year of build from 2005 onwards,
- Min. three cabins,
- Not chartered before,
- No production cat like Lagoon, Fountaine Pajot, Leopard, Nautitech, etc.

These are really strict requirements! No charter, no production boats? All those brands you mention are fine boats. Also, nearly all charter boats are from the large production builders anyway, so those two items are a little redundant.

If you consider a monohull instead, you can really open up your choices. But even then it would be hard to meet all that criteria, especially while the boat market is pretty strong.

I recommend one of these things:

1. loosen up your requirements considerably, and/or

2. Buy a damaged catamaran and fix it up yourself, and/or

3. Wait for the next worldwide recession, when the market is flooded with boats, and boat prices crash (that one may be coming up soon)

[One]

It's ok, thanks for your input.

There is no hurry to buy a boat at the moment. Currently we have rented a house in Croatia by the sea until autumn. If something is found by April 2023, it would be great, plus the time to fix everything.

I also think that the situation with oil and gas will worsen by the fall. Inflation will rise, interest rates will be raised by the central banks and stock prices will fall and eventually prices on the boat market will also fall and the supply will increase. Nobody knows if this will happen, but it would be equivalent to 2008.

We met a family on a pdq 36 in the caribbean, which everyone of us really liked. So know I'm looking for a similar boat for the Med.

A really damaged catamaran would be a too long project. I found a Lerouge catamaran in Europe that needs some work (a lot is outdated and needs replacing or refurbishing) but the current owner (82) is very attached and not sure if he should sell it. The second is a Grainger but with broken engines. So I'll keep looking for now.

[PippaB]

I guess some of us are old enough to remember when the Gougeon Brothers sold an asbestos fiber filler for their epoxy products. It was used for making amazingly strong, hard fillets and other joint-filling pastes. Sold as raw asbestos fibers, you dumped them into mixed epoxy by the handful and stirred them in, all the while watching the lovely dust motes glistening in the sun and coughing fitfully.

It was enough of a regular thing that the EPA specifically listed it as a forbidden use in 2019.

Asbestos-reinforced plastics were used for electro-mechanical parts in the automotive and appliance industries and as high-performance plastics for the aerospace industry. Asbestos-reinforced plastic was typically a mixture of some type of plastic resin (usually phenolic or epoxy), a general filler (often chalk or limestone), and raw asbestos fiber.
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/list-us...-uses-asbestos

Not that I think you'll find much of it in pre-2005 boats, and it is now encapsulated in epoxy if you do, but the stuff was used in boat construction. I have personally gone through buckets of it and sometimes even miss its properties.