Antares 44 or Knysna500SE

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by DaveandLinda

We did the same search 3 years ago and found the Maverick Catamaran from South Africa at the Annapolis Boatshow. Took delivery in July 2017 in Cape Town and sailed her back across the Atlantic to spend a year on East Coast. Excellent builder in Cape Town South Africa and lots of superb blue water features. We are now in Pacific NW cruising. I would strongly recommend the Maverick. They will be at Annapolis and have a good website with info too. We have been cruising full time since 2012 with 3 Atlantic crossing so we were clear on what we wanted in a new cat and definitely found it with our Maverick.

We will definitely be having a look in Annapolis - my reservation has always been that the cockpit looks a bit on the small size ?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Hartings

Thanks but the Outremer is a tad too performance orientated for us - need a little more comfort !

I'm not sure that adding performance means losing comfort.

If you like sailing, or even just the ability to sail instead of motoring when the wind is ahead of the beam, if you wanted to, then get a boat with some deeper keels than either of the two you mentioned. The Outremer 51 has plenty of interior comfort, in my opinion, and will go upwind.

Or...if you really plan on motoring most of the time, it doesn't matter.

[Hartings]

We have no intention of motoring all the time. BUT we don’t want daggerboards so Outremer is out and there is definitely a huge trade off between performance and comfort - we want / need 3 decent sized cabins and the Outremer doesn’t have those.

[justakiss]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I'm not sure that adding performance means losing comfort.

If you like sailing, or even just the ability to sail instead of motoring when the wind is ahead of the beam, if you wanted to, then get a boat with some deeper keels than either of the two you mentioned. The Outremer 51 has plenty of interior comfort, in my opinion, and will go upwind.

Or...if you really plan on motoring most of the time, it doesn't matter.

Good points. While the Outremer is narrower than most similar sized catamarans, the "loss" of comfort in the hulls is, IMO, minimal. Our take on it is that if you're under sail or anchor, you're spending the bulk of your time either at the helm, in the cockpit, or in the saloon. What you get in return the added performance.

[DaveandLinda]

Regarding the size of the cockpit on the Maverick, there are. various configurations possible (again semi-custom) and our choice for a double bench seat and table which seats 4 easily makes for a very large “back porch”. With the canvas enclosure from North Sails, we live out there!
Regarding galley up or down, we enjoy the social aspect of cooking so we much prefer galley up.

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by justakiss

Good points. While the Outremer is narrower than most similar sized catamarans, the "loss" of comfort in the hulls is, IMO, minimal. Our take on it is that if you're under sail or anchor, you're spending the bulk of your time either at the helm, in the cockpit, or in the saloon. What you get in return the added performance.

Noted - the 3rd cabin is a single - we need a proper 3rd cabin - I am really pleased that the Outremer meets your needs but it doesn’t meet ours. Also I would never cross an ocean with such an exposed helm - I know others do but it’s not for me.

[Four Coconuts]

I’m impressed with the new Vision 444, although I haven’t been on one yet (I have been on the older vision 450). Protected bulkhead helm, vinylester, furniture bonded to hulls, good bridge deck clearance, centered weight distribution, easy engine access, performance oriented hulls(my wife refers to Lagoons as having “chubby cheeks”), glass saloon windows, forward facing nav station, u shaped galley, lithium batteries standard, simple as possible wiring, quality cored woodwork(like Antares) the list goes on. $645k vs $1m for the Antares.

If you have $1m to spend and want a real world cruiser get a Seawind 1600 (although that is a little shy on bridgedeck clearance). The Knysna is a beautiful boat, I’ve been on them, but don’t think you’re getting the waterline (performance) of a 50 ft boat, it’s LWL is only 45’.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Four Coconuts

... forward facing nav station..’.

Where did you see that? I cannot even see a nav station?

[Four Coconuts]

They’re already on hill #5 or 6, but for whatever reason the homepage doesn’t include pictures of finished boats. Sailaway Catamarans does, though.

https://www.sailawaycatamarans.com/b...tates-5103646/

Note: one of the boats was done with twin stern helms, but the standard is bulkhead.

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by Four Coconuts

They’re already on hill #5 or 6, but for whatever reason the homepage doesn’t include pictures of finished boats. Sailaway Catamarans does, though.

https://www.sailawaycatamarans.com/b...tates-5103646/

Note: one of the boats was done with twin stern helms, but the standard is bulkhead.

Based upon what I have seen it’s a marketing disaster - I wouldn’t therefore touch this with a barge pole - they say they are shaft drives on the website whereas the other details say saildrives.......so what are they ?

[Four Coconuts]

They are sail drive. I am aware of the shaft drive issue you mentioned and actually called the dealer a few days ago to ask that very question when I saw it. I see now their website is down for maintenance- perhaps we’ll see some updating. I hear you on the marketing front. It’s pretty embarrassing when you’re on hull 5 and 6 and don’t even have real pictures on your website.

[Hartings]

I see Knysna are no longer pricing in Rand and now exclusively in USD - with a consequential 20pct uplift in price. Good luck to them.

[Milestones]

Just an opinion on the Maverick 44. We spent a day picking and poking and found a number of really nice features we liked there were a couple that pushed the needle to the "not so much" side. We took issue with the engine hatch down on the low end of the sugar scoop. We felt, especially in a following sea, it was too low to the water and could get swamped far too easy if open. The shower in the Owners cabin was cute but not very functional for a person at or over over 6' tall. I had to stand in one spot, under the hatch, to stand up straight. We found glue smears on the interior from the window installations and not just a little but all over and a few other curious things regarding finish that left us thinking it was just slapped together. The last thing was in the forward portion of the Dinette was a day bed. We both liked the idea and would use it quite a bit but there was a non-locking panel covering an electrical assembly that had exposed connections. An adult would not pay it all that much attention but grand-kids, who would love the day bed as a fort or what ever they could dream up, could just reach in. Yes a responsible parent would lock it or modify it to lock but why was it not in the first place. We can away with a feeling that things could have been better thought out or done with a better quality.

[Mystic38]

So..you are saying that boats with good marketing materials go to the top of your list?..

Thats a shame.. personally i think that a boatyard needs to be far more competent in building boats than making marketing collateral..

after all, its no good waving a brochure to the gods when the vessel does not sail well falls apart lol

Originally Posted by Hartings

Based upon what I have seen it’s a marketing disaster - I wouldn’t therefore touch this with a barge pole - they say they are shaft drives on the website whereas the other details say saildrives.......so what are they ?

[Hartings]

No - I am saying that I won’t buy a boat when the builder clearly doesn’t know if he has saildrives or shaftdrives. Come on......