Arco Zeus Alternator Regulator Bench Test

[Starrider]

The Zeus will work stand alone just fine. It does not need info from your Victron BMV. It will monitor the charging voltage and current via the added shunt and battery sense wires. It monitors the current and can even be programmed for Bulk, Absorption and float just like a Victron solar charger.

So it does not need to know the state of charge (counting amp hours) it knows when the battery is charged by the reduction of charging current and voltage.

Originally Posted by eheffa

Hi Starrider,

This is quite helpful. Thanks.

I am considering upgrading my alternator controller to a Zeus in order to charge our new 960 Ah LFP house bank. (2 x 460Ah Epoch's that are actually showing capacity of 480 Ah each.)

I have a 160 Amp alternator with a rather old-tech Balmar MC-612 External regulator. I have two Victron Orion-Tr 30A DC-DC chargers in place to charge the LFP while running the main engine but would prefer to exploit more of the alternator's capacity and charge the LFP bank directly from the alternator whilst still ensuring I don't overload the alternator. The DC-DC chargers can be repurposed to charge the AGM start and thruster banks.

We do have a Victron BMV shunt in place to monitor battery voltage and SOC.

I understand that I could install a Cerbo GX and connect the Zeus and the Epoch's to the Victron system but I am not convinced that I need to do that if I could get the Zeus to see the true voltage and SOC being reported by the Victron BMV. (It does make sense to have the extra shunt to monitor alternator output.)

Is there a way to integrate the Victron shunt without going to the Cerbo GX and DVCC?

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Starrider

The Zeus will work stand alone just fine. It does not need info from your Victron BMV. It will monitor the charging voltage and current via the added shunt and battery sense wires. It monitors the current and can even be programmed for Bulk, Absorption and float just like a Victron solar charger.

So it does not need to know the state of charge (counting amp hours) it knows when the battery is charged by the reduction of charging current and voltage.

Thanks.

I am finding that old Lead Acid charging parameters and expectations are not appropriate for the Epoch LFP's. The charging parameters for the LFP bank can be relatively simple as the internal resistance is so low that the SOC tracks pretty closely with voltage (while charging not while discharging), at least with ~ 0.5C charging currents: ie I can set the Bulk charge to 13.9 VDC. Once you actually get to 13.9 VDC, you are reliably at ~99% SOC. Drop to a float charge around 13.4 VDC to service the house loads and it seems very stable with good cell balancing. (+/- 5 mV)

So, my needs from a good Alternator regulator would be relatively simple. ie it has to have well-controlled and reliable voltage control while bulk charging, no matter what loads are being applied, and to the ability to prevent overloading the alternator (as indicated by case temperature and alternator current output). The Programming and Monitoring should be easily accessible and easily adjusted; thus, the appeal of the Zeus over the Wakespeed.

It's good to know that if I opt for the Zeus that I can achieve this without the full monty Victron Cerbo...

My IP22 Chargers and the MPPT charger can reference the BMV over BT for voltage and SOC. The Cerbo can't interface with the IP22 chargers, the Orion-Tr chargers and certainly can't connect to my perfectly functional CC/CV charging Magnum 2812 while running the generator. The Cerbo adds unwelcome complexity and to be truly useful demands the replacement of a lot of perfectly functional charging equipment.

Does one need to add an additional shunt on the Negative side of the house battery to serve the Zeus or can one connect the shunt leads to the Victron BMV? If I read you correctly, you may not need a shunt at all if the Zeus has voltage sense leads on the House Bank batteries?

[Starrider]

There is an issue with that and will explain. If you connect the Zeus to your Victron shunt, without an alternator shunt The Zeus will be measuring all your charging sources and will be confused if you have solar or wind charging.

I do and dislike shunts in positive leads. So by adding a low cost shunt in the engine negative lead, The zeus can now measure charging and discharging current. Very handy as the Zeus will show current draw for your glow plugs and starter. If you want to put a shunt in the alternator positive lead, you could then use the Victron shunt in the negative lead.

Installed a Victron solar controller and BMV, Just like your setup, the BMV sends information to the solar charger via bluetooth. Also have a Magnum 2812. Older firmware does not have a lithium profile. Have to play with it and believe AGM 1 profile will work.

There is no need to spend all the big bucks on the fancy cebo stuff, the Zeus makes all this much simpler.

Originally Posted by eheffa

Thanks.


Does one need to add an additional shunt on the Negative side of the house battery to serve the Zeus or can one connect the shunt leads to the Victron BMV? If I read you correctly, you may not need a shunt at all if the Zeus has voltage sense leads on the House Bank batteries?

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Starrider

There is an issue with that and will explain. If you connect the Zeus to your Victron shunt, without an alternator shunt The Zeus will be measuring all your charging sources and will be confused if you have solar or wind charging.

I do and dislike shunts in positive leads. So by adding a low cost shunt in the engine negative lead, The zeus can now measure charging and discharging current. Very handy as the Zeus will show current draw for your glow plugs and starter. If you want to put a shunt in the alternator positive lead, you could then use the Victron shunt in the negative lead.

Installed a Victron solar controller and BMV, Just like your setup, the BMV sends information to the solar charger via bluetooth. Also have a Magnum 2812. Older firmware does not have a lithium profile. Have to play with it and believe AGM 1 profile will work.

There is no need to spend all the big bucks on the fancy cebo stuff, the Zeus makes all this much simpler.

OK. Thanks

This is making more sense.

I see the value in the alternator output shunt. Zeus recommends a positive lead shunt but you are saying this could be on the negative side instead and restricted to just the alternator output via the engine block negative lead?

I have an older MC-50 Remote for the Magnum 2812. It does not have a LFP profile but under the custom battery settings one can specify a CC/CV protocol with termination of charging based on charging current dropping below a defined value. ( I have this set for 13.9 VDC & discontinuation at 30 Amps but still playing with the current threshold.)

Edit: I should mention that the IP22 chargers are set to 13.9 VDC as well but they have a bit of absorption time as part of their protocol. The Magnum provides the bulk big current charging with the IP22’s finishing it up.

[Starrider]

Thanks for the Magnum, tip will check that out.

I believe everyone that is interested in the Zeus (me included) has an issue understanding how the Zeus works. Spoke to the Zeus engineer on the phone several times. The first conversation Learned that the Zeus actually uses the Battery Shunt for controlling alternator charge current. If using an existing victron shunt and a shunt in alternator positive lead, the Zeus is able to subtract other charge sources from the battery shunt by the alternator shunt information.

My method is a shortcut. Simply add a second shunt just for the engine, connect the leads for the Zeus battery shunt there and now you measure alternator current only. This is running fine like this on my sailboat. Tested it for an hour on the hose last week. No need for an alternator shunt when wired this way.

Originally Posted by eheffa

OK. Thanks

This is making more sense.

I see the value in the alternator output shunt. Zeus recommends a positive lead shunt but you are saying this could be on the negative side instead and restricted to just the alternator output via the engine block negative lead?

.

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Starrider

Thanks for the Magnum, tip will check that out.

I believe everyone that is interested in the Zeus (me included) has an issue understanding how the Zeus works. Spoke to the Zeus engineer on the phone several times. The first conversation Learned that the Zeus actually uses the Battery Shunt for controlling alternator charge current. If using an existing victron shunt and a shunt in alternator positive lead, the Zeus is able to subtract other charge sources from the battery shunt by the alternator shunt information.

My method is a shortcut. Simply add a second shunt just for the engine, connect the leads for the Zeus battery shunt there and now you measure alternator current only. This is running fine like this on my sailboat. Tested it for an hour on the hose last week. No need for an alternator shunt when wired this way.

Hello again Starrider,

After sending in some questions to Arco Zeus, Andre Cormier replied by email and kindly offered to talk through my questions.

Interestingly, he has posted a video that addresses most of my concerns & questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDbQ_ILbeA4

My take away lessons:

Yes, the Victron BMV shunt can be connected directly to the Arco Zeus.

It looks like a positive lead shunt from the alternator is pretty much a necessity with a grounded case alternator like what we have. (Concerns around shielding the Positively charged shunt can be mitigated with good shielding.). I am not sure how much my engine block is truly shielded from negative current reaching ground via other connections.

Protection from a sudden BMS shutdown is still an open question in my mind though...

How much risk of BMS shutdown with the Epoch BMS's is there in everyday operation? Using a Balmar APD as a 'seatbelt' (thanks Mike G) to prevent alternator damage and severe voltage spikes in case of sudden BMS shutdown makes sense but prevention of a charging MOSFET shutdown in the first place makes more sense.

Is it good enough prevention to ensure that all charging sources are properly programmed and reliable in their output and do not attempt to overcharge much beyond 100% SOC and or with charging voltages > 13.9 VDC? Using two batteries in parallel as we have it set up might also reduce the risk of complete BMS shutdown as a fault in one BMS causing MOSFET shutdown would still allow one battery to accept charging.

Any wise comments or suggestions welcome.

[svtickles]

Where can I find the Zeus for $225 discount? Please send me a pm.

What type of shunt do you recommend? A Victron 500A with BT?

[Starrider]

The price has increased since my purchase, but purchased it here https://www.imarineusa.com/ARCOMarineAZ1000.aspx
Any shunt will work as it is programmable in the Zeus app. The alternator shunt does not need to be bluetooth.

[Larsmate]

I note the talk of eliminating shunts altogether with a firmware update when connected to a Victron Cerbo. I have the latest published firmware on both the Arco Zeus and the Cerbo GX and see the Arco Zeus on the device list in the Cerbo. I'm still connected to the alternator shunt. Should I now be able to simply connect the two shunt reading wires together?

[SVWalksonWater]

Two responses, first if you need to purchase/add a shunt to your system, we have been using the Victron Energy SHU500050100 Shunt 500A/50mV successfully for under $25 USD.

Second, with regard to Firmware, currently in the works is canbus/N2K communications from a connected Victron GX and Lynx BMS to the Zeus regulator for purposes of using the Lynx shunt data in place of the currently required battery side shunt. Other installations without the Lynx BMS will likely still require a battery side shunt following the update, but beta testing has not been completed.

With regard to the "optional" alternator side shunt, future firmware updates (note this is another update which will occur after the before mentioned update) will require this as the Zeus regulator becomes Victron DVCC controlled. With the Zeus as a Victron follower once the DVCC firmware updates occur to both the Victron Venus OS and the Zeus, the Zeus will require the alternator side shunt. Not to muddy the water, but wanted to correct that "talk of eliminating shunts alltogether" is not accurate.

[Starrider]

Originally Posted by SVWalksonWater

Two responses, first if you need to purchase/add a shunt to your system, we have been using the Victron Energy SHU500050100 Shunt 500A/50mV successfully for under $25 USD.

With regard to the "optional" alternator side shunt, future firmware updates (note this is another update which will occur after the before mentioned update) will require this as the Zeus regulator becomes Victron DVCC controlled. With the Zeus as a Victron follower once the DVCC firmware updates occur to both the Victron Venus OS and the Zeus, the Zeus will require the alternator side shunt. Not to muddy the water, but wanted to correct that "talk of eliminating shunts all together" is not accurate.

I sure hope this firmware update is not going to affect current installations. I do not use victron comms and do not intend to. The Zeus is working perfectly fine without an alternator shunt and do not intend to install one. Can you confirm that in my situation that I will not be forced to install an alternator shunt?

[SVWalksonWater]

The Zeus will continue to function stand-alone with the Zeus app and a mandatory battery side shunt.

Firmware updates will add features and capabilities, but not "take away" from original installation specs.

[Starrider]

Thank You for the information!

[Larsmate]

Originally Posted by SVWalksonWater

Two responses, first if you need to purchase/add a shunt to your system, we have been using the Victron Energy SHU500050100 Shunt 500A/50mV successfully for under $25 USD.

Second, with regard to Firmware, currently in the works is canbus/N2K communications from a connected Victron GX and Lynx BMS to the Zeus regulator for purposes of using the Lynx shunt data in place of the currently required battery side shunt. Other installations without the Lynx BMS will likely still require a battery side shunt following the update, but beta testing has not been completed.

With regard to the "optional" alternator side shunt, future firmware updates (note this is another update which will occur after the before mentioned update) will require this as the Zeus regulator becomes Victron DVCC controlled. With the Zeus as a Victron follower once the DVCC firmware updates occur to both the Victron Venus OS and the Zeus, the Zeus will require the alternator side shunt. Not to muddy the water, but wanted to correct that "talk of eliminating shunts alltogether" is not accurate.

Thanks for your response. I also have the Lynx BMS in my system so the shunt could possibly be removed in the future? I'm a bit over my head with this new install of mine (by an electrician) and the reason I'm talking shunts is that since the Zeus regulator and shunt was installed my Cerbo touch screen is giving me wildly inaccurate readings on the DC loads.