Are "Performance Cruising Catamarans" safe?

[Chotu]

And for good measure, here are the most safe boats. They are significantly more safe than a Hylas. Are these ones you would choose?


The first one is a little scary because it’s tall and you might fall off. So I would probably go for the one with the flowers. It’s even more safe.

[boatman61]

And the silliness continues..
We've had the Ferrari example, now let's try the m'cycle comparison.. several years ago I decided to get back into bikes and bought a Suzuki Katana 11000S but after owning it for 9mths decided it was too heavy for my 67yr old body to lift anymore, discovered this when I stalled mounting a kerb on a steep slope to get up a driveway and the bike toppled down slope pinning my leg beneath it.. its top speed was 130mph.
Took it back to the dealer I bought it from and he suggested I try the Honda CBR600RR.. 0 to 130mph in 11seconds and a top speed of 160mph.. I took it back 3 weeks later having come to the conclusion that my reactions were not what they were and much as I loved the performance and speed I would likely die prematurely from the addiction to the buzz.
Next was a Kawasaki KLE500, easier on wrists and back with 0 to 60 mph in 11seconds.
Still great fun but less likely to kill me.. Next was an even more sedate Yamaha Virago 535 when I hit 70.. an old man's bike similar to the Hartley Davidson.
Risk tolerance and knowledge of personal skills and limits.

[neilpride]

Of all of them, the one i don't see you on is the CBR 600.

[smj]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And the silliness continues..
We've had the Ferrari example, now let's try the m'cycle comparison.. several years ago I decided to get back into bikes and bought a Suzuki Katana 11000S but after owning it for 9mths decided it was too heavy for my 67yr old body to lift anymore, discovered this when I stalled mounting a kerb on a steep slope to get up a driveway and the bike toppled down slope pinning my leg beneath it.. its top speed was 130mph.
Took it back to the dealer I bought it from and he suggested I try the Honda CBR600RR.. 0 to 130mph in 11seconds and a top speed of 160mph.. I took it back 3 weeks later having come to the conclusion that my reactions were not what they were and much as I loved the performance and speed I would likely die prematurely from the addiction to the buzz.
Next was a Kawasaki KLE500, easier on wrists and back with 0 to 60 mph in 11seconds.
Still great fun but less likely to kill me.. Next was an even more sedate Yamaha Virago 535 when I hit 70.. an old man's bike similar to the Hartley Davidson.
Risk tolerance and knowledge of personal skills and limits.

So the Suzuki Katana was like a heavy slow catamaran, to hit 8kts it took full sail area and 20+ kts of wind and I’m getting to old to crank in that 1200sq ft of working sail.
The Honda CBR600RR was like a performance catamaran, could hit 8kts under 100% roller furling jib in 20kts of wind and is so easy to handle for an older fella.
Of course if one needed the extra speed for instance to get to port before dark you could rely on the Honda, not so much the Suzuki.
Seems as if the Honda could be considered a safer motorcycle as long as the rider has some self control?

[neilpride]

No one buys a CBR 600 to go shopping for bread.

[smj]

Originally Posted by neilpride

No one buys a CBR 600 to go shopping for bread.

But it could take you to the bakery just as safely as the Suzuki? Probably safer as you wouldn’t be falling over every time you had to stop!
If you had a 15 mile sail would you rather raise 1200sq Ft of sail area for the 2 hour sail or pop the roller furling jib?
Maybe that’s why so many charter cats motor!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by neilpride

No one buys a CBR 600 to go shopping for bread.

Ha ha ha ha ha! This is true

Boatman: I’m impressed with these bikes and the ages you ride them!

Not to Boatman:

My current motorcycle was bought as a toy. A disposable toy to use in a rural area while I was working on the boat.

It’s a cheap, Chinese enduro that turned out to be incredibly reliable. I planned to sunset it after it died. It won’t.

Anyway, it’s a paltry little 200 enduro that can’t go over 55 (geared for off road and small engine). That makes it unsafe on the road. It also isn’t as safe as a real dirt bike off road.

Is it as safe as any of the bikes Boatman listed on the road? Definitely not.

Is it as safe as possible off road? Definitely not.

It’s the right tool for the job. It gets me to places to ride off road. It can be used to go buy bread. It does everything I needed.

Same reason for performance cats. They do what we need.

For me, that’s going to be sailing when others are motoring.

That’s what I want in a boat. I’ve suffered through extremely safe catamarans like Catalacs. It was mostly a power boat with some sailing added. This is the opposite. It’s mostly a sail boat with some power added.

I have suffered through many mediocre monohulls.

In fact, that’s all these performance Catamarans really are. They are good sailing boats. That’s it. Instead of being a motorboat with some sails on it. They are like a J24 or something.

Rather than talking about super high power top speed things, what we ought to be talking about is Enduro bikes. It just dawned on me. That’s what we have here.

We have power boats. Let’s consider that the street bike. We have sail boats with no engine that do well. Let’s call that the dirtbike. Every boat that everyone of us owns is an Enduro.

It’s just how far on the spectrum between dirtbike and street bike do you want to go. Or how far on the spectrum between pure sailboat and pure power boat.

It’s still hard to get the taste of that Catalac out of my mouth. That was a power boat. With a little stick on it and some rags.

I wanted the opposite this time. Which is a sailboat with a couple little Outboards on the back to get in and out of harbors.

That’s what a performance Catamaran is. It’s just something that sails well and sits far over to the sailing side of the spectrum.

Yes, they are like the CBR 600RR. You can certainly kill yourself on it. But you don’t have to turn the throttle all the way. You can just turn it a little bit and it behaves like a Vespa

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smj

But it could take you to the bakery just as safely as the Suzuki? Probably safer as you wouldn’t be falling over every time you had to stop!

Of course, but back to the risk factor tolerance, any of these bikes will take you to buy bread in safety, but let's be honests, the guy who buys a cbr 600 is to twist his ear.

[Factor]

I have never stopped riding since I was 14 - Current steed is Triumph Tiger 800, great thing, and the sound of the triple is a joy to the ears. I do have a lusting for a Ducati 1199 Panigale S Tricolore - though I suspect I couldn't ride it at all well, but hey - I could stare at it endlessly in the Garage for days.

Originally Posted by boatman61

And the silliness continues..
We've had the Ferrari example, now let's try the m'cycle comparison.. several years ago I decided to get back into bikes and bought a Suzuki Katana 11000S but after owning it for 9mths decided it was too heavy for my 67yr old body to lift anymore, discovered this when I stalled mounting a kerb on a steep slope to get up a driveway and the bike toppled down slope pinning my leg beneath it.. its top speed was 130mph.
Took it back to the dealer I bought it from and he suggested I try the Honda CBR600RR.. 0 to 130mph in 11seconds and a top speed of 160mph.. I took it back 3 weeks later having come to the conclusion that my reactions were not what they were and much as I loved the performance and speed I would likely die prematurely from the addiction to the buzz.
Next was a Kawasaki KLE500, easier on wrists and back with 0 to 60 mph in 11seconds.
Still great fun but less likely to kill me.. Next was an even more sedate Yamaha Virago 535 when I hit 70.. an old man's bike similar to the Hartley Davidson.
Risk tolerance and knowledge of personal skills and limits.

[smj]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Of course, but back to the risk factor tolerance, any of these bikes will take you to buy bread in safety, but let's be honests, the guy who buys a cbr 600 is to twist his ear.

Having owned a performance cat for awhile there are 2 aspects I really enjoy.
The ability to sail in light winds while others are motoring.
The ability to sail in stronger winds with a greatly reduced sail area, which means less stress on both the boat and crew.
No pushing it for this old man!

[neilpride]

And, following the analogy of this thread, a CBR could be a Gunboat, and the Kawa a Lagoon, risk factor? with the CBR you need all your senses and reflexes at 100% , with the kawa you can relax a little more, in a Gunboat at max speed you need to pay more attention and in a Lagoon you can sit and get bored to the extreme.

I think I'm getting into a puddle.
Thanks guys.

[smj]

Originally Posted by neilpride

And, following the analogy of this thread, a CBR could be a Gunboat, and the Kawa a Lagoon, risk factor? with the CBR you need all your senses and reflexes at 100% , with the kawa you can relax a little more, in a Gunboat at max speed you need to pay more attention and in a Lagoon you can sit and get bored to the extreme.

I think I'm getting into a puddle.
Thanks guys.

Yes, but a Gunboat could probably equal a Lagoons speed while being under bare poles…..so which is safer at the same boat speed?

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smj

Yes, but a Gunboat could probably equal a Lagoons speed while being under bare poles…..so which is safer at the same boat speed?

Humm, i doubt that under bare poles both get the same speed, but I ask again, would you buy a gunboat to go shopping for bread? Which of the 2 is safer? I guess it depends on who is behind the helm.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by smj

So the Suzuki Katana was like a heavy slow catamaran, to hit 8kts it took full sail area and 20+ kts of wind and I’m getting to old to crank in that 1200sq ft of working sail.
The Honda CBR600RR was like a performance catamaran, could hit 8kts under 100% roller furling jib in 20kts of wind and is so easy to handle for an older fella.
Of course if one needed the extra speed for instance to get to port before dark you could rely on the Honda, not so much the Suzuki.
Seems as if the Honda could be considered a safer motorcycle as long as the rider has some self control?

I'd not call the Suzuki slow unless.. 1/4 mile 0-119mph in 11.9secs is your idea of slow..
Maybe the Yamaha 535.
As for weight, a 235kilo lift with a leg pinned under is not easy when your down slope of the weight.. and it only happened once.
As for your performance speeds.. I've done a steady 9 kts under 2/3rds genny downwind in 25kts going fro Gib to Gran Canaria on a Lagoon 380.. Maybe your not getting the best outa your 'performance' catamaran..
Chotu.... my best speed on a Catalac 9 was 18.65kts..
I was on a surf with severe sphincter reaction mind you.

[Chotu]

Jesus!!! 18.65 on a 9m?!?

That is crazy and very stressful on the boat for sure. Pushed to its absolute limit. I am pretty sure at that point you were planing. Ha ha.

I took mine out in a gale and I think I still only got something like 12 kn out of it on perfectly flat water. And mine was a 10M.

But again this conversation shouldn’t be about the maximum. That’s not why we have performance Catamarans.

The reason most of us have them is so we can sail when everyone else is motoring.

The Catalac could not do that. You had to fire up the motors all the time with that boat in light air. It was awful. It was a power boat.

And I can safely say that I have spent much much more time wishing for more wind on boats than less. I need a boat that solved all my problems. The performance Catamaran ticks those boxes.