BALI 4.0 experience - weak points, problems?

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Not an owner, I only chartered one once, and we had a great vacation. It was on the Dalmation coast and the "garage door" made the living area very comfortable with the salon open to the cockpit. It was a new 4.0, and I can see why you find it appealing. Negatives: As stated, pointing to windward was not very good; One bilge pump had some problem with an optical sensor for the auto switch, and I found myself cleaning the lens a couple times on a new boat. The seating area in the bow, with large windows connecting it to the galley/salon area was great for passing drinks or snacks up and socializing up there, but the design did not seem robust enough for ocean passages; (We also had an engine problem that we were told was related to us misusing the climate control in some way, but this issue was likely due to a language barrier during the briefing, and was quickly corrected by the charterer's mechanic, out on the water.)

As you said, compromises. You plan to liveaboard, but do you plan to do more local sailing or ocean passages/circumnavigating? I think you are right to gather any info you can from owners, maybe look up polar diagrams for what they are worth. Sorry I had just the limited experience with a Bali but figured it wouldn't hurt to post.

Great post, thank you very much!

Basically, for the first few years we keep it coastal sailing, island hopping and once in a while a passage for two or three days. We stay in Thailand and the idea is to stay on the water in high season from Nov. to Mai. In june haulout in KBL Marina for anual works for 3 to 4 month.

In case we want to exchange diving at Similan Island to the Maledives..lets see...

However.... at the moment all boats we have spoted so far are ether in Europe or on the Seychelles.... which leads us to our first big trip. EU to Thailand or Seychelles to Thailand. But thats s different beast and i will talk about that on a different post. Lol

Thanks again for your post. BTW... do you remember the name and year of the Bali you chartered in Croatia? 3 or 4 Cabin vessel?

Cheers,

John

[Bullshooter]

It was named Indigo Star, a 4 cabin version, 2018

[Sos]

How many owners, that have spent all that money, are going to give you a bad review of their own boat?

Better to ask charterers that have sailed on different boats for a better perspective maybe?

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by Sos

How many owners, that have spent all that money, are going to give you a bad review of their own boat?

Better to ask charterers that have sailed on different boats for a better perspective maybe?

Valid point!

However, we have been chartering by ourselfs. In 1-2 weeks, weak spots might not show up that much....

Thanks.

John

[Bali43Cat]

Originally Posted by yeloya

They are all consevatively rigged and not only upwind but they won't sail properly in any direction, prepare to motor 80% of the time. Finally, front cockpit in Bali's is very good idea on nice weather an anchorages but I find it very uncomfortable even dangereous in high seas..

Wow is this a wildly broad and incorrect statement. We owned a 4.3 for two years and put about 4,000 miles on it including a run up the thorny path. Now we have a 4.8 with 5,000 miles under keel in the past 5 months including an Atlantic crossing - so we know a little bit about this subject.

With a square top main and an asymmetrical for downwind work we've sailed in all conditions and directions. 6 to 9 knots is almost always doable. Granted upwind performance is pretty much on par with any cruiser cat (Lagoon, FP, R&C) at about 50° off. Not sure how many people looking for a cruising cat are planning to spend a lot of time beating to wind, but if you are, yes plan on motoring more than a Outremer - but you'll be heading direct and burning a whopping 1.5 gals. per hour doing it.

After 9,000+ miles I can report no issues with solid foredeck other than greatly increased useable area and storage. For those worried about pitchpoling down 70' waves - perhaps an Iridium Go with Predictwind and plans to stay away from Cape Horn to keep you out of that kind of weather would be a comforting investment.

[walkabout08]

Originally Posted by Piscis

I am planning to purchase a BALI 4.0 from the Owner.

We are well in the negotiating process of finding a price we both feel comfortable with. I am happy i found a vessel not under contract by a broker, which is not easy at the moment!

I know, a broker can ease a lot of things and can be very helpfull. But i guess i prefer to save that extra 40.000-50.000US$ and invest it in refit and possible post purchase repairs, and do a couple of things by myself...

My next step will be to visit the Boat and have a look at it.

To all the BALI Owners or anybody who have experience with that vessel... What are the week points i should take special attention to? What kind of problems did you, as an owner or extensive charter captain, encounter during the time you have been sailing and using that Catamaran?

We chartered a BALI already and the 4.0/4.1 is actually on top of our list.

This thread should focus on issues i can find while having a look at the vessel without surveyor assistance. The first visit will be just for me if i feel good with this particular boat and were i can end up price wise.

After that visit, i will negotiate the price with the owner, hopefully finalizing with a sales contract.

After that, i am planning to hire a surveyor for final inspection after phase out of the vessel (it is still in charter).


Thanks and have a nice day,

John

We chartered a Bali in the BVIs in 2019. The boat sails like a dog. It’s really a motor boat with a stick as decoration. Make sure it has 200+ gallon fuel tanks

[Primipile13]

hello from France. i’m a charter skipper. i have been to the factory in Tunisia dozens of times. The cleanest best organized factory i’ve ever seen ! There were issues on lewmar escape hatches losing the plexiglass while at sea. The more recent bali’s have rutgerson hatches redesigned. They sail as good as most leisure catamarans. The x track or leeway is not worse than any other lagoon, nautitech, leopard or privilège! There have been a couple of rigging faults with spar craft. I have been upto 20 knots sog with 30 knot mistral. Easy to steer, keeps a good course and most importantly doesn’t slap like noisy lagoons.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by walkabout08

We chartered a Bali in the BVIs in 2019. The boat sails like a dog. It’s really a motor boat with a stick as decoration. Make sure it has 200+ gallon fuel tanks

Sails like a dog compared to? Under what conditions and points of sail. Without the most basic of details your statement isn't terribly helpful.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Bali43Cat

We owned a 4.3 for two years and put about 4,000 miles on it including a run up the thorny path. Now we have a 4.8 with 5,000 miles under keel in the past 5 months including an Atlantic crossing - so we know a little bit about this subject.


After 9,000+ miles I can report no issues with solid foredeck other than greatly increased useable area and storage.

So good to hear from someone who has taken a Bali out of the marina. Because it is a new and different design philosophy, I have am asking you to share your experience with us.

1. Did you cross the Atlantic with someone manning the helm station at all times? If not, where was the watchstander at night? during squalls?

2. Assuming you sailed East to West in the trades, what sail plan did you use during the day? at night? in light winds? in heavy winds?

3. How many crew did it take to change the sail plan? reef? set/douse the asymmetric?

4.How long was the passage, and how many days did it take?

5. How many engine hours did you put on during the crossing?

6. How many crew did you take, and what were their approximate ages and experience?

7. Did you add any grab rails or hand holds to the boat?

8. Did you use tethers and harnesses? when?

9. Did you have any issues? Sea sickness? Injuries? Equipment failures? Chafe?

[Bali43Cat]

Good questions - I'll be happy to answer...far more than an Atlantic Crossing - this journey began where we purchased new in south of France and continued all the way to the Caribbean where we are now...

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

So good to hear from someone who has taken a Bali out of the marina. Because it is a new and different design philosophy, I have am asking you to share your experience with us.

1. Did you cross the Atlantic with someone manning the helm station at all times? If not, where was the watchstander at night? during squalls?

Obviously the boat ran on autopilot the vast majority of the time. The 4.8 has Raymarine electronics with hydraulic steering - very capable - and particularly necessary to set to the highest sensitivity when running dead downwind. During the day crew was free to come and go from the helm/flybridge as desired - though with the comforts of the flybridge it was manned almost all the time - At night the helm was manned at all times.

2. Assuming you sailed East to West in the trades, what sail plan did you use during the day? at night? in light winds? in heavy winds?

Great question as this is not as obvious as it sounds. During our weather period heavy weather existed from the Canaries on the rumbline to St Lucia. Because of this we deviated through very light (no) winds south the Cape Verde using the asymmetrical spinnaker when possible and motoring quite a bit. From Cape Verde heading dead downwind with 15 - 25 knts continuous we set the square top out all the way to the shrouds for dead downwind with 1 reef, tied the full jib out wide on the other side and sailed wing/wing for almost 2 weeks straight. It cannot be overstated how ridiculously smooth and quiet the ride was running dead downwind - very easy to forget the 2-4 meter wave almost always present at the stern.

3. How many crew did it take to change the sail plan? reef? set/douse the asymmetric? While we had 4 crew, my wife and I are fully capable of doing all sail changes including deploying and retrieving the asymmetrical. Like anything it takes prior planning and practice. Admittedly the high sail plan of the Bali's (and other flybridge cats) looks a bit unwieldy and intimidating but after awhile you don't even really think too much of it. We're a bit new to the asymmetrical but have found it remarkably easy to handle - but it's definitely something to keep well within it's wind range.

4.How long was the passage, and how many days did it take? France to Canary Islands = 2 weeks. Canary to Cape Verde = 1 week. Cape Verde to St. Lucia = 2 weeks.

5. How many engine hours did you put on during the crossing?Like I mentioned above we had several areas of NO wind - Gibraltar to Canary and half of Canary to Cape Verde so quite a bit of motoring there. We ended with about 320 hrs on the engines. Also keep in mind we did not have solar panels installed so used Integrel Generators for power which required engine run time even while sailing.

6. How many crew did you take, and what were their approximate ages and experience? 4 total - 3 males, 50/39/38 & 1 female 40. We all have extensive time on "boats" and had the prior year's experience running the thorny path but this was first time on a crossing for all of us.

7. Did you add any grab rails or hand holds to the boat?No need for additional hand rails - the Bali has a pretty good rail system for most areas already.

8. Did you use tethers and harnesses? when?Harnesses (with AIS locators) & tethers were mandatory at night and used during heavier weather during the day.

9. Did you have any issues? Sea sickness? Injuries? Equipment failures? Chafe? Had some issues with the square top main not being quite adjusted at the top correctly which led to a broken batten which we repaired. While diagnosing we had some excessing flapping of the rig which led to broken reefing line which was quite the effort to replace underway! No sea sickness, no injuries. Given the questions we've gotten since completing the journey I have the feeling most armchair sailors believe this journey is a constant battle of man vs. weather vs. the angry ocean and, while I'm sure it can be, it's nothing like that at all if proper planning and patience are involved. With modern weather forecasts, and twice daily Iridium GO weather updates along the way - the ability to maneuver away from harm has never been better. As I mentioned, during our passage the rumbline was very hazardous and, perhaps 20 to 30 years ago we'd have likely sailed right into it without modern technology telling us what was out there. In fact - the ARC rally during this time had several boats disabled and a fatality associated with this very weather system. Instead we chose to go south and were rewarded instead with a table top smooth ocean, a 4 hour long tuna battle, and lots of domino games.

With respect to the OP - for MUCH of this 5 week journey we often found ourselves gathered on the bridge or up on the foredeck having a wine & cheese just watching the water go by. Really a surreal feeling as the fat cat was literally like a well appointed apartment floating from one continent to the other. The Bali leaves very few modern comforts to be desired and we all agreed this was truly a monumental experience.

[Piscis]

Thank you very much for your report!

John

[Catalacmarc]

For anyone's information, there is a Bali beiing parted out on Craigslist/Seattle. Saw it today. Bali 46 damaged in transit. It seems everyitng is for sale except the sails.


https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...457976042.html

[BrianInBoston]

I can add a little to the Bali conversation, having chartered the 4.0 three cabin owner’s model a few times out of New Providence to the Exumas. Actually, the admiral won’t let me pick anything else in that size class, once she got used to preparing meals up front with that huge window dropped down and the rear garage door open. As much breeze as she can handle and a 360 degree view of the island anchorage, it really adds to the magic of immersing yourself in the natural environment. That said, here’s the few things on the other side of the coin:

The escape hatches on the forward cabin inside hulls looked vulnerable, almost at the water line at rest. When we were making our Yellow Bank crossing motoring into 6 foot swells, I angled off 20 degrees because waves under that solid foredeck were pounding the nacelle and I didn’t want to stress those hatches.

That solid foredeck in place of the trampoline looks better on paper than in real life. Yes, lounging there at anchor is quite comfortable. But underway all those 10 cushions have to be stowed below to stay out of the salt spray. And each night we took them down since being uncovered they became condensation magnets that wouldn’t dry out until midmorning the next day. Eventually we just kept a couple in circulation and skipped the rest. And having that solid foredeck means little visibility to the anchor going up or down, since it drops from under the salon front window area rather than the front crossbeam.

We saw on two different boats another item to look for. The garage door is held nicely in the open position with a locking clamp. But in the closed position while underway, that big door is held in place with just a pair of flimsy slide bolt latches similar to what you’d get at the hardware store for a backyard fence gate. They don’t look designed to take a load, but any hull flex gets transmitted to the door through those slide bolts. We saw one deformed somewhat and another that was bent and had fallen apart. We saw tape on one that was holding it from popping open. Probably not hard to upgrade to something more substantial.

Lastly I’d want a throttle at the inside helm station. The visibility on watch in there is awesome, on an elevated chair right up by the front salon window. But if you need to throttle back quickly while in autopilot, it’s a long run back out the door to the transom and then around the corner and forward up the external stairs to the flybridge helm.

Overall, these small Bali cats are an amazing boat at only 39.5 feet at the water line, they feel much bigger and have become a trend setter. But probably happiest doing coastal cruising and inter-island hops.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

A couple of months before this thread was started, I walked by a Bali at the dock and had to come back and take a picture so I could show people what catamaran NOT to buy.

It will be OK as a floating condo if you never leave the dock. What caught my eye was how far the boom and the steering station were off the water. Reading the reviews and looking at the interior just reinforced my conclusion that the boat was never intended to go to sea.

You will seriously injure yourself if the inadequate handholds cause you to fall into one of the square Ikea cabinet corners, or fall off the boat completely from 12 feet up trying to tie in a reef.

A bit like a Lagoon 40...

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Icarus

A bit like a Lagoon 40...

No - not as good as the lagoon 40, more like the Lagoon 39 and probably not as good a sailor as that, and the Lagoon 39 is an abysmal sailing boat. Beaut comfortable etc at anchor though