BE AWARE FOUNTAINE PAJOT TOBAGO 35 - Sandy Bottoms - Vero Beach

[Iceblue]

Hi Everyone,

I want to let you know about this boat a FP Tobago 35 for sale in the US. This is my recent experience as 06/22/23.

This boat has major structural damages that will be hidden from you, until your surveyor found them out. Owner “seems” to not understand that BREAK and OLD are two different concepts. The reality is that is trying to flip this boat and see if he can make it through. But knowing that you are doing a survey and let you spend 3K to find out what any boat owner will knew it is just not decent.

Why he think we is flipping: Owner got the boat in 2021 for around 84K (you can find the old add on internet searching for “Lauren Marie” listed at $95K). Few months later he listed the boat for 139K without even replacing the rugs in the saloon. We discover this after the survey unfortunately.


Before doing the survey we have asked the broker if there was any structural damage or any major issues, they say NO, the boat is old but thats it but is ready to go sailing. Between haul out and surveyor we paid almost 3K. The only marina available there is half of the cost.

We are aware that old boats will need maintenance and replace things that get old with the time, didn’t expect anything pristine either. But here comes the surprise:

Once the boat comes out of the water you can see the sail drives cover in sea-life. This boat had at least 3 years of not cleaning the props and sail drives. After the surveyor did a little cleaning the zincs between the propellers and sail drives were gone and he found corrosion starting on the sail drives. The survey didn’t start well. Surveyor explained later after checking electrical that there was an electrolysis problem that was causing the issue and if not taken care soon the problem will be worst.

Next he found was the starboard stern delaminated, a big bubble on the first step. Humidity levels and some blisters on the interior side of the wall that protect the steps show that all this back side will need to be open and see how extend the problem was.

Moving on with the survey arriving to the bow, two cracks on the parts that hold the crossbeam in each side (one more than the other) plus a bend in the crossbeam itself that could be repaired or not, meaning a new crossbeam will need to be installed and lot of professional glass work needed to be done.

At this point we are talking about major issues that any single boat owner will be aware. If you have a boat you will know about this. In words of the surveyor: “I wont be sailing this boat offshore ever, unless this is fixed”.

But more surprises to come, if you own a boat you know that a bilge pump it is IMPERATIVE in a boat, well not here, they do NOT have any single automatic bilge pump in the boat. The only bilge pump on board is a manual one for the shower. The owner is aware and his response when surveyor asked where the pumps were located is that he didn’t know and never need them. We should have filmed the surveyor eyes.

Checking the engines, the oil level was to the top. OLD and full. At least better than not having any, no?

The floor in the salon, that was covered with the previous owner rugs was pealing off and the plywood underneath started to get damaged by water intrusion. Owner comment: this happens in old boats.

When doing sea trial we could not raise the main sail because owner (captain) said he didn’t feel comfortable sailing with the main but he had the head sail full open, the reason… the main sail is long gone. No life there, and the headsail has at best couple more months of sailing. Owner comment, this item is not a necessity and not important priority, as far as I remember we were buying a SAILING catamaran. But not surprised of his answers at this point. Btw I didn’t expect new sails, but or you disclose that the sails are gone or they should have at least 2-3 years of live left on them.

Running rigging is not only not sized correctly but is done, you need a complete replacement.

Only one of two AC units works.

Not no a single spare of anything on board and many items missing to list them here. This is ok, if there was not structural we will be fine getting them, as I said we knew that we have to put money buying and old boat (even with the news, imagine the older ones). The frustration we have with broker and seller is to hide this major things, we could have know before hand and make a decision before surveying the boat… but again this post is exactly to avoid what they are trying to do here, that it is getting away with a lemon.


Survey came a little under $82,000 in boat value IF all this issues (findings in survey language) were fixed.

After checking with different yards the cost of repair this boat will be around 35-40K doing many things yourself. As time and money was already invested in this deal we decided to made an offer in consequence with the repairs need, to get back an answer from the owner calling us low-ballers, imagine and counter offering us with the same amount he had paid for the boat 3 years before. We had only discount 30K from our initial offer, which was higher than what he had paid.

We wanted to consider that he might didn’t know anything about boats, as he presents himself, but was pretty clear that we wanted to flip the boat and run away.

We proposed to send the survey (as he requested when we told him about the findings) for him to fix the boat or have it ready for next buyer and save them time and money. Which he declined.

We are pretty sure none of this issues will be taking care and they will try to find someone that makes the mistake of not surveying the boat.

Hope helping someone with this information (we got out of a boat thanks someone in this forum who posted the issues that seller and broker were hiding). I wish I can do the same with you.

Good luck out there with your search.

[GreenWave]

Hate to say it but if you or your designee had done the proper review and assessment of this boat prior to survey you could have avoided the cost. There are numerous writeups and Youtubes on how a non-surveyor can assess a boat they may be considering to buy. I think one could have caught many of these problems or enough to have stepped back and maybe said - not for me.

[Iceblue]

Thanks for the comment. The areas where the structural problems are located are not really visible for a regular buying taking a first look on a boat. Without the boat being in the hard were difficult to access, but thanks for the input. At the end you have to trust no ones word unfortunately.

[GreenWave]

I am writing this to not slam the OP, rather to help those who come along in the future looking for a boat.


1) he found was the starboard stern delaminated, a big bubble on the first step - A walk through of the boat prior to making an offer would have seen this and was noted by the OP

2) No bilge pumps?!?! - red flag
3) "plywood underneath started to get damaged by water intrusion" - not good
4) "Running rigging is not only not sized correctly but is done, you need a complete replacement"


I could go on but don't need to. If one wants to buy a boat with these issues and omissions then so be it. The rest of us would run very fast down the dock.


Iceblue- i wish you good fortune in finding your boat.

[Iceblue]

Thanks for your interest in my post. Hopefully everyone buying a boat was an experienced surveyor... it looks so simple, right? But once again thanks for the comment.

[Fore and Aft]

Iceblue you have a classic case of "Rose Glasses" syndrome. For some of my customers I have surveyed four different boats before they have found the right one.
Usually, the first one is a complete disaster and I point out all the obvious clues, the second survey is better and usually the last survey the customer has been well schooled, and the boat is fine.
3K is a cheap lesson, you could have ignored the surveyor and still purchased the cat.
Cheers

[Iceblue]

My apologies for taking out of your plate your next customer first survey.

[Fore and Aft]

Iceblue this is the trouble with the written word I have no idea if you are taking the piss or being serious. Either way you have developed a relationship with your surveyor so you should keep using him.
After a disaster like your first survey the client usually then sends me links to other boats, and I can hopefully help them weed out the lemons from the gems. Once a relationship has been established, I often get flown all around the country to look at boats for the client.
Cheers

[Iceblue]

Received mail from the broker, looks like they are going to take the boat of the market and owner will be doing "repairs". Very concerning because my guts tell me that they will cover up the issues cosmetically.

If you come across this boat, be sure to get pictures of the repair while being done and the bill from the company that did the repairs.

If the crossbeam fail you will put in risk lives!

[more]

Originally Posted by Iceblue

Hi Everyone,



Why he think we is flipping: Owner got the boat in 2021 for around 84K (you can find the old add on internet searching for “Lauren Marie” listed at $95K). Few months later he listed the boat for 139K without even replacing the rugs in the saloon. We discover this after the survey unfortunately.


.

Hi iceblue
this is 100% boat in beter condition and moderate price.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...lucia-8331314/

on this you can save on surveyed,not need
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/202...la-40-8490178/

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Iceblue

Thanks for your interest in my post. Hopefully everyone buying a boat was an experienced surveyor... it looks so simple, right? But once again thanks for the comment.

You would be surprised on how much a non-expert can spot issues by just doing research on Youtube. I've restored several older boats, to a point of seeing a lot. I have many friends who ask me to do a first time go-thru on boats they are looking to buy. If a seller has an issue with me spending an hr+ going over a boat, that's usually a sign right there. In many cases red flags can be seen. Enough to have second thoughts and perhaps move onto the next vessel.

[Shrew]

1) Find a boat you like in your price range

2) View the Boat

3) Hire a surveyor because you want to make sure the boat is structurally and mechanically sound

You don't hire a surveyor to tell you when to buy....you hire a surveyor to tell you when to WALK.

This sounds like a success story.

[Talbot]

If the running rigging was old and undersized, anyone want to bet on the size, state and age of the standing rigging? That can be a nasty shock to the wallet as well.

[bullislandken]

I also “wasted” 3 grand looking at a Baba 40 in Deale, Maryland in May. I offered 90% of asking price and they countered at 95% so I said, “Ok, we can start there”. I flew from Montana to DC and I found things that needed attention BEFORE my surveyor showed up but I was still willing to move forward. When my surveyor’s list was larger than mine, I got quotes for a couple projects. The mast needed attention due to corrosion around fasteners and extensive surface corrosion. Just that quote was $25k. I then adjusted my offer by lowering it 6,000 dollars to a 90% offer. They refused and the broker immediately wanted to return my escrow money. The owners said they would not sell me the boat because, “you don’t love Sofia”. What a waste of money and time.

They WILL have to find an idiot or someone that doesn’t care the boat needs over 30 grand in repairs of deferred maintenance and what they called “cosmetic” repairs. For sure the broker doesn’t have a corroded mast on his 52 ft Cabo Rico and the owners of Sofia don’t have corrosion on their newly purchased 47 ft trawler.

The owners are unrealistic and the broker of “Integrity Yachts” gave the sellers bad advice. I am a WAAAY better steward of these old Perry boats than any of them. Two weeks ago I bought a Baba 40 for $38 grand less and the mast looks great. There are certainly a lot of things to do on Zoe but not close to 38 grand worth of stuff….more like 15 grand.

Sellers of monohulls full of exterior brightwork have to be realistic there are not that many knotheads like me to sell to. I expect they will sell at some point for a lower price than I offered. I hate it cost me 10 days and three grand, too. Watch out for “pie in the sky” sellers.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Iceblue you have a classic case of "Rose Glasses" syndrome. For some of my customers I have surveyed four different boats before they have found the right one.
Usually, the first one is a complete disaster and I point out all the obvious clues, the second survey is better and usually the last survey the customer has been well schooled, and the boat is fine.
3K is a cheap lesson, you could have ignored the surveyor and still purchased the cat.
Cheers

lol that's EXACTLY how it went with me. Bought the 3rd boat, 3x the price of the first one I went to survey on too lol

Unfortunately there are a lot of boats on the market where the buyer knows there's major problems and it trying to slip them by. Whether its because they themselves got caught and are trying to cut their losses, or because they are trying to make a fast buck I don't know.

We looked at a Tartan 4500 that seemed really nice. Whilst doing research we found ads for a remarkably similar boat from a couple months prior down in Panama.

Turned out my surveyor knew the boat. It had blown off its jackstands in Panama and literally EVERYTHING inside, was out of place by 2 inches!