Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by ozolli

With the stern extensions the ORC42 is a 45ft cat. The majority of them are that size.

It was also on my short list last year but a bit too small for a family of 4. In fact there is hardly any cupboard in this boat. It's ok for one month holiday but not all year round.

I ordered a CM46 from Current Marine in South Africa. Construction starting in May.
Here if you want to have a look : https://currentmarine.co.za/cm46/

Well yes thats common but its still a 42 cat extended.
There is still a lot of storage, not organized in cupboards like on Lagoons. Yes they are spartan inside as all is focused to weight saving and performance. And yes i would have just added some cupboards, easy to do and added some weight this way.

Familiy of 4 a 42 is indeed on the small side even on a condo42 when liveaboard. We are 2, so i need a 2nd cabin for crew and the other cabin e is storage and household room. I would actually give up an owners version and take a 4 cabin one and transfer that 4th cabin into a workshop. A small wet head is ok for me, showering most of the time at the sugarscoops anyhow after swimming, so for brushing teath and racor plus the occasional shower on passage a small head located in middle of the cat is all we need.

The CM is over 1 Mio with all in, rather take an odyssey, mumbay or outremer then but i want smaller and yes budget is 600k which fits a TS42 but not the bigger ones.
There is simply no performance boat new in this 42ft range.

[ozolli]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

The CM is over 1 Mio with all in, rather take an odyssey, mumbay or outremer then but i want smaller and yes budget is 600k which fits a TS42 but not the bigger ones.
There is simply no performance boat new in this 42ft range.

Base price ready to sail is 800K€.
Over 1M is full options (full carbon structure, carbon rotating mast and boom, carbon longeron and fore beam, B&G, etc).

Your other option may be one of the Stealth line from Asia Catamarans but I find them too light for my liking.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by ozolli

Base price ready to sail is 800K€.
Over 1M is full options (full carbon structure, carbon rotating mast and boom, carbon longeron and fore beam, B&G, etc).

Your other option may be one of the Stealth line from Asia Catamarans but I find them too light for my liking.

A buddy of mine is looking for a perfomance oriented cat in the 48ft range and a CM46 or outremer 45/48, windelo 48 and seawind 1370 are all around 1 till 1.1Mio Euro in the sail ready spec he wanted, the HH OC44 comes to 1.35Mio.

An TS42 was 450k base and 600 all in.

[rabbi]

The cat is not my cup of coffee but I love how this video has taken off.

85.000 views in one week must hurt these brands badly. Good for John, good for future customers!

Lessons learned: Don't buy a new boat. Don't get into a position where you need a french lawyer.

[Alistair242]

I feel for this man. He purchased the boat in good faith and there were obvious build quality issues. I read that this was a customised TS42 with keels and that the boat was in charter when he was not using it. Is this right? It is not the robust kind of boat you would usually find in charter and I question anyone’s decision to put it in bareboat charter.
The boat was returned to Europe from the Caribbean with the owner on board and he did not notice a keel was missing? Once again very odd. They could have hit something, or something could have hit them(an Orca perhaps). Was that rudder already delaminated before departing the Caribbean and if so why was it not noticed? Ditto for any signs of the keel delaminating. Surely the underside was inspected by the owner or someone on board prior to leaving for the return to Europe. Obviously the laying up of the hull was done incorrectly initially and one wonders if this would ever have been noticed if not for the missing keel. Other TS owners will be running to get surveyed!
It seems extremely unlikely that the boat would not be returned to him from MC and/or the liquidators repaired or not. He purchased the boat and despite returning it to them it would/should remain his property. What is the reason for them holding his boat?
Having the boat in charter also raises some doubts. It says that the boat was grounded “lightly”. What does that mean? Its unlikely that the charter clients were completely open about any incidents they may have had. Having worked for some time in the charter industry and having seen the resulting damage from charter accidents I would have to think that there could easily have been some unreported groundings and other unknown potentially damaging incidents.
There are a lot of cloudy areas in this scenario.
I imagine that the timing of GLY purchasing the yard is not coincidental and they most likely picked it up for a song. It is also very common for a company purchasing a liquidated entity to not take on any liability, particularly from a boat built 8 years previously, as in this case.
What about insurance? Surely if you purchase a EUR500,00+ boat and put it in charter it must have had comprehensive insurance?
Maursdon Composites and the French liquidator have been despicable and they should be held liable to return this mans money and more to compensate for the treatment he has received in the past 5-6 years. Surely those funds are there since GLY has purchased the entity? But there are a lot of grey areas and no-one will put money up that they are not required to, particularly as these boats are no longer being built.
I fail to see how GLY can be held responsible in any way.
There are many more questions than answers here. As said, I feel for the owner but it also seems there is a lot more to this story. It would be good to hear from other TS and ORC owners.

[Indolent58]

Originally Posted by Alistair242

I
There are many more questions than answers here. As said, I feel for the owner but it also seems there is a lot more to this story. It would be good to hear from other TS and ORC owners.

The video was quite detailed and answered many of the questions you raised. So I’m thinking you either didn’t watch it or didn’t listen carefully.

[Alistair242]

Originally Posted by Indolent58

The video was quite detailed and answered many of the questions you raised. So I’m thinking you either didn’t watch it or didn’t listen carefully.

I watched it several times
Obviously there were serious issues with the build but after that?
The insurance. If the boat was insured, as you would assume it was, why will they not pay out?
The charter history. What does a “light sanding” mean and how can they be sure thats all it was and that there were not other incidents?
Was the underside inspected regularly and specifically before the return to Europe? I always have a look around on a regular basis, particularly when in warm water like the Caribbean and always before a long passage. Was the underside inspected prior to departing for the Caribbean?
It looks as though there were signs that the keel had been repaired after the initial anti fouling. Where, when and by who?
There must be more to the liquidator not paying out the claim. They cannot just decide to not pay a legitimate claim.
Are there other TS/ORC claims like this?

As said, lots of unanswered questions.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by ozolli

With the stern extensions the ORC42 is a 45ft cat. The majority of them are that size.

It was also on my short list last year but a bit too small for a family of 4. In fact there is hardly any cupboard in this boat. It's ok for one month holiday but not all year round.

I ordered a CM46 from Current Marine in South Africa. Construction starting in May.
Here if you want to have a look : https://currentmarine.co.za/cm46/

So jealous every time I see this! Such an amazingly gorgeous boat. Now that Levity did stern extensions, is Julian doing something similar at the factory?

[Matt Johnson]

If GLY were to step up and fix this boat, I'm sure it would start lawyers salivating with the implied warranty rights for every other boats Marsaudon built. I see zero chance of them getting involved besides offering guidance. Poor guy

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by rabbi

The cat is not my cup of coffee but I love how this video has taken off.

85.000 views in one week must hurt these brands badly. Good for John, good for future customers!

Lessons learned: Don't buy a new boat. Don't get into a position where you need a french lawyer.

In europe its very hard to get around french companies if you want a cat...hardly anything avaliable thats not french if below 1 Mio.

And yes i woulddn't buy a new vessel either unless i have the funds of a owners representative during the build...i have the right surveyor to do that who also has the knowledge and balls to kick big manufacturers in their butt (due to him Laggon must change over 100riggs now) if screwing up the built but missing sufficent funds to do such a built :-)

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

If GLY were to step up and fix this boat, I'm sure it would start lawyers salivating with the implied warranty rights for every other boats Marsaudon built. I see zero chance of them getting involved besides offering guidance. Poor guy

If done right they would have done this in the beginning and quitely fixed up his issues on that one TS42 and exactly learn what went wrong to prevent on the new build ones. Would have cost them less the juat the fees for the court case...
Masourdon also made catanas and there was no issues, so they know how to do things. This one might be a unicorn/exception like a monday boat and the issues lead to more stress also in other areas
But well the last years theybsold every **** avaliable and customer lining up, now when the market is suffering you pay the price for huge mismanagement.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

In europe its very hard to get around french companies if you want a cat...hardly anything avaliable thats not french if below 1 Mio.

And yes i woulddn't buy a new vessel either unless i have the funds of a owners representative during the build...i have the right surveyor to do that who also has the knowledge and balls to kick big manufacturers in their butt (due to him Laggon must change over 100riggs now) if screwing up the built but missing sufficent funds to do such a built :-)

Lagoon is pretty clear that you can't get a surveyor involved in the build. Possibly for final handover, but then its already fairly late as the big chunk has been paid.

I am sure the other big manufacturers are the same

[ozolli]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

So jealous every time I see this! Such an amazingly gorgeous boat. Now that Levity did stern extensions, is Julian doing something similar at the factory?

Hi Matt,
Don't be jealous; Your Max Cruise is gorgeous too !
Yes, the sterns are now half a meter longer than the original CM45 so the boat is close to 47ft.
We are also discussing with Julian to extend the bows too in order to keep the mast at the right place relative to the hulls.
As the boat is already quite powerful we have decided for a 18m mast (Levity is 19m). Ours will be for liveboard family of 4, not a racing machine around the cans ;-)

[donradcliffe]

I watched the video with an eye as to how this boat could be repaired. The short answer--it is not repairable for the cost of a new boat. There was widespread failure of the glue joint, and many are not accessible without disassembling the structure. If they used the same glue on my boat I would consider it a write off. If the factory started making Outremers, I would not buy one unless they could assure my expert that they would not be using this construction technique.

[Indolent58]

QUOTE=Alistair242;3875044]I watched it several times
Obviously there were serious issues with the build but after that?
The insurance. If the boat was insured, as you would assume it was, why will they not pay out?
The charter history. What does a “light sanding” mean and how can they be sure thats all it was and that there were not other incidents?
Was the underside inspected regularly and specifically before the return to Europe? I always have a look around on a regular basis, particularly when in warm water like the Caribbean and always before a long passage. Was the underside inspected prior to departing for the Caribbean?
It looks as though there were signs that the keel had been repaired after the initial anti fouling. Where, when and by who?
There must be more to the liquidator not paying out the claim. They cannot just decide to not pay a legitimate claim.
Are there other TS/ORC claims like this?

As said, lots of unanswered questions.[/QUOTE]

Does your boat insurance cover you for manufacturing defects? Mine doesn’t and I can’t imagine that ever being the case, if the boat had sunk as a result of the failure perhaps that might be different. I understand that there are unanswered questions but they are mostly in your head. The surveyors opinion was that the keel did not separate because of a hard grounding. Their analysis was extensive and detailed. You can choose to believe them or not. As for the liquidator not paying, in liquidation proceedings deciding which creditors get paid when there is not enough money for all claims is at best a dark art. There does not need to be a reason the OP is not getting paid. He may just lack the proper connections or the right lawyer.